Tavor and P-mag interference *video*

TV-PressPass said:
s**t. This is me with LAR mags too. Time to sit down with the light again.

This is the bolt wear that first prompted me to look into these issues. I'd be pleased to find some other possible reasons:
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Just FYI, I picked up a used/spare bolt from CanadaAmmo (mint, very low round count) and there was some wear in the same spots along the bottom; tiny bit on the lugs, around the extractor pin and some along the one edge at the back.

There wasn't any wear, however (at least as far as I could tell), on the recessed part near the back where the firing pin is visible. It seems fairly substantial on yours and I'm wondering if something else isn't at work here?
 
My guess would be your rifle is laughing too hard at your little outfit... :p

That is normal bolt wear.
My rifle runs any magazines.
Are you maybe shooting reloads?
 
TV-PressPass said:
Then for the love of god: someone tell me why this happens
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Just to recap: the FTFs were happening with the original military bolt, and you've subsequently switched to the civilian bolt - is that correct? If so, have you experienced any problems with the civilian bolt? Also, what are you at for round count - and have you experienced any comparable wear on the civilian bolt?
 
Last I looked civilian bolt had zero wear but I've probably only shot 500-700 rounds since the switch.

I did have one odd experience with the civ bolt where the charging handle seemed locked or unreasonably stiff. The entire action didn't want to move. I pulled the rear assembly out, disassembled the bolt in the field, took the spring and firing pin out, re-lubed everything and reassembled with the spring flipped around. It hasn't happened since.
 
Have you used any PMAGs with the new civilian bolt? Unless it's an issue with the Magpul follower itself, I can't see PMAGs being any more of a concern than the LAR-15's. There's not a huge difference between the default factory follower and a Magpul one on the LAR-15s, either. You weren't getting any slam-fires with the military bolt, so I assume you were using something like PMC with a mil-spec primer?
 
Actually I've been running the P-mags hard in it. But leaving the LAR mags at home lately. (Kinda sucky for reload drills)

I fired a ton of Remington UMC through there and a ton of AE 62gr FMJ, but also a few boxes of Barnes Vortex and Hornady 72gr stuff. Never had a slamfire.

I did once get a double tap, when in my infinite wisdom I removed the spring entirely from my civilian bolt.
 
TV-PressPass said:
Actually I've been running the P-mags hard in it. But leaving the LAR mags at home lately. (Kinda sucky for reload drills)

I fired a ton of Remington UMC through there and a ton of AE 62gr FMJ, but also a few boxes of Barnes Vortex and Hornady 72gr stuff. Never had a slamfire.

I did once get a double tap, when in my infinite wisdom I removed the spring entirely from my civilian bolt.
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lol, that doesn't surprise me. ;) The spring is what allows the Tavor to fire commercial ammunition without double-taps or slam-fires. Otherwise you need to run something like PMC that has a mil-spec primer.

I'm still curious as to what caused your original FTFs. If the wear to the mil-spec bolt was the culprit (which it sounds like it might be at this point), I wonder what led to that in the first place. Maybe a combination of PMAGs, the mil-spec bolt and commercial ammunition? Something else that was out-of-spec? Please keep us appraised of any future issues...

PS. Loved the "bolt gun" comment in the video. ;)
 
D-Boy said:
The follower height is more credible for a timing problem.

The v-shape of the P-mag is a real problem for the SCAR. But not for the Tavor .

Good summarize Blaxsun !
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Blaxsun:
My tavor is from the second or 3rd batch I think. I got it in Early 2010. With spring on the firing pin and came with a M21 from CanAm.
From what I saw, the BHO moves even further upward ~ 1mm higher if you push the magazine upward, depends on which mag. So if I push the mag with 1 round upward, pull the charging handle, I can feel the BHO is actually slightly touching the bolt bottom when it slides returns, at least in my case.
I have seen this on IWI mag, C-Products mag, the mag came with my DDM4. The only one that stays not moving at all is my 5/20 Colt and the colt mag fit tighter inside the mag well.

Also my understanding is the bolt should be much harder than the Bolt Catch, correct me if I am wrong.
 
MUGEN said:
Blaxsun:
The BHO moves even further upward if you push the magazine upward, depends on which mag.
I have seen this on IWI mag, C-Products mag, the mag came with my DDM4. The only one that stays not moving at all is my 5/20 Colt.
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Sure, some of the magazines can be forced to temporarily raise the BHO 1-2mm additional. As soon as you remove any pressure on the magazine, though - the BHO returns to the approximate adjustments noted above. The steel HK416 magazines that I used as the control didn't budge the BHO regardless of how much pressure I applied.

The net end result is the same, however: all of the magazines I examined should work flawlessly (without causing any damage) with a standard Tavor.
 
TV-PressPass said:
Then for the love of god: someone tell me why this happens

[youtube]uTxPcM7XW64[/youtube]
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look like a Ar15 after a heavy use of a 22lr bolt. When the gas hole is full of lead.
Your Tavor clearly stay locked, the gas system dont make is job...

I see this problem on semi-auto when the gas block or the gas system is not aligned. this is a regular problem.


TV-PressPass said:
7276071526_e619c14f6e_z.jpg
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This is contact zone , the finish is removed by the contact. Its the same on all guns.
 
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