Tavor Barrel Flex Causing Lack Of Accuracy?
- Thread starter Sniffer
- Start date
If you watch any of Larry's other videos, all rifles flex pretty severely in slow motion. (5:23 mark) The purpose of a free-floated barrels, for example, are to let the barrels flex freely, and therefore consistently.
Also I get good results shooting XM193 out of the Tavor, lots of good groups, the occasional exceptional group. (Whereas I don't get good results shooting XM855 out of anything, just terrible.)
At 100 yards the weight of the projectile and the twist rate make very little difference. All you need is to find a load that has the right combination of velocity/bullet weight that works well with the barrel harmonics to let the bullet leave the muzzle at the same point in the barrel whip every time. This is what we do when handloading, it's more than just making a consistent load it's finding the consistent load that works well with the barrel harmonics.
A 7 twist barrel will stabilize every bullet weight from light varmint projectiles up to the heavier stuff for long range precision shooting, where you will notice the difference with a tighter twist and a heavier/longer bullet is at 500 yards and over. Where a light/short bullet starts to lose it's stability after 300 yards due to low RPM and as velocity is dropping off due to the reduced ballistic coefficient a heavier/longer bullet spinning faster will continue on remaining stable much further.
The barrel flex seen in the vids is common to all thin barrel rifles and does not mean that it can't be accurate, more that it will be effected by heat much faster than a heavier barrel. This is why a properly heat relieved thin barrel can still shoot well even after it gets hot but these barrels they put on battle type civilian rifles typically shoot like crap after a couple rounds. If you really want to see what a Tavor or any other rifle is really capable of you need to find a type of ammo the rifle seems to like then take one shot every 3-5 minutes with the rifle fully supported in sandbags. But who buys a rifle like this to shoot tight groups off a bench?
If the only thing you judge a rifle on is it's accuracy then you are correct it sucks.
If you buy a rifle properly suited to the task at hand and do a little research before you purchase you will not buy a Tavor for long range precision shooting but instead you will buy a Tavor for fun gong banging, 3-gun, CQB, coyote rig to ride around in the truck or on the quad, or other general fun shooting. If you want to shoot tiny groups then buy a precision rifle.
I'm not a huge fan of the Tavor but it has less to do with accuracy and more to do with personal fit and wants that my other non restricted semi auto's do better for me.
A 7 twist barrel will stabilize every bullet weight from light varmint projectiles up to the heavier stuff for long range precision shooting, where you will notice the difference with a tighter twist and a heavier/longer bullet is at 500 yards and over. Where a light/short bullet starts to lose it's stability after 300 yards due to low RPM and as velocity is dropping off due to the reduced ballistic coefficient a heavier/longer bullet spinning faster will continue on remaining stable much further.
The barrel flex seen in the vids is common to all thin barrel rifles and does not mean that it can't be accurate, more that it will be effected by heat much faster than a heavier barrel. This is why a properly heat relieved thin barrel can still shoot well even after it gets hot but these barrels they put on battle type civilian rifles typically shoot like crap after a couple rounds. If you really want to see what a Tavor or any other rifle is really capable of you need to find a type of ammo the rifle seems to like then take one shot every 3-5 minutes with the rifle fully supported in sandbags. But who buys a rifle like this to shoot tight groups off a bench?
If the only thing you judge a rifle on is it's accuracy then you are correct it sucks.
If you buy a rifle properly suited to the task at hand and do a little research before you purchase you will not buy a Tavor for long range precision shooting but instead you will buy a Tavor for fun gong banging, 3-gun, CQB, coyote rig to ride around in the truck or on the quad, or other general fun shooting. If you want to shoot tiny groups then buy a precision rifle.
I'm not a huge fan of the Tavor but it has less to do with accuracy and more to do with personal fit and wants that my other non restricted semi auto's do better for me.
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Very true, also reliability is much more important than accuracy
Not really, you just need to spend a lot more to have both.
My ACR has shot sub moa groups with my handloads and I can't recall either of my rifles every having a failure of any kind other than when the magazine was not seated correctly.
My PWS AR would shoot moa or better with quality ammo and it never had a failure of any kind during 5000 rounds other than when the magazine was not seated correctly.
How's your KAC doing? Accurate? Reliable?
You can have your cake and eat it to but not unless you're willing to pay a premium for it.
boss351cleveland
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Down by the river
My all factory Gen1 Tar21 will murder pop cans and clays all day long at 100y , and can score regular hits on a 12 inch gong at 300y , what else can you ask for with a infantry type rifle ...
I'd expect a recent design to be able to at least match a decent late model AK for accuracy, but many Tavors and especially X95s can't even seem to do that, even with optics.
I respect the practical offhand accuracy and ergos, but between the typically mediocre mechanical accuracy and the Playskool plasticy feel, I'd expect these things to be priced in the $1300-$1500 range, not $2600.
I respect the practical offhand accuracy and ergos, but between the typically mediocre mechanical accuracy and the Playskool plasticy feel, I'd expect these things to be priced in the $1300-$1500 range, not $2600.
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
In all fairness, my 20" AR with a 1:12 twist shoots 55gr Norinco exceptionally well.
I can count on 4" groups at 100 meters with irons consistently. It's better than most North American bulk offerings by a mile as far as accuracy and consistency goes.
Not sure where it's getting a bad rep?
Maybe a lot of guys are shooting bulk ammo expecting it to shoot like tailored handloads? I shot a lot of ammo through the Tavor. It definitely preferred the heavier projos. 62gr did better than 55gr and 69gr SMK was better than both.
When I say better I mean it put 10 rounds in a sort of pattern on a 3x4' paper at 100m instead of missing the board lol
Like I said the Tavor does a lot of things well but shoot with any amount of accuracy is not one of them.
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
Canada tail
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
it is not you, not the optics it is the gun. It should be a $1000 level gun for its quality but we have so few NR options here in Canada. btw iwi uses a few women to advertise I hope you did not fall for her cuz she is already spoken of. lol
So the only thing that you use to quantify a firearms value is how accurate it is? If it can't shoot 1 moa then it's $1000?
You are not paying for accuracy, you're paying for the materials, coatings, engineering, manufacturing costs (not everything is farmed out to China or the Philippines). These are civilian versions of military battle rifles, they are designed to shoot military ball ammo and they get a cheap rack grade pencil barrel, the engineering and design requirements are that they are capable of about 4 moa, some rifles can do better than that but any better is just a bonus. These were never intended to be precision firearms for North American whiners to sit at a table shooting paper targets. If you want to shoot 1 moa groups then you are shopping in the wrong department.
PinaKaleada
CGN Regular
- Location
- South of most
I bet the designers at IWI are laughing at us North Americans for putting scopes and nice triggers in the rifle. Pretty sure they designed the rifle to be run-n-gun, CQB, cover fire type shooting.
Here's a question, go to YouTube and search for combat footage. Let me know how often do standard soldiers, under fire, have the opportunity to find a position where they can make used of an accurate sub MOA rifle. I'm not talking about DMR type tasks, which they probably have AR type platforms for it.
Or try this yourself, without any bench/table support, and try to see if you can shoot a supposedly accurate sub-MOA rifle, accurately. I bet it's impossible. I can't even imagine the stress and pace involved during combat, so I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the soldiers won't even be able to take advantage of an accurate sub-MOA combat rifle.
Here's a question, go to YouTube and search for combat footage. Let me know how often do standard soldiers, under fire, have the opportunity to find a position where they can make used of an accurate sub MOA rifle. I'm not talking about DMR type tasks, which they probably have AR type platforms for it.
Or try this yourself, without any bench/table support, and try to see if you can shoot a supposedly accurate sub-MOA rifle, accurately. I bet it's impossible. I can't even imagine the stress and pace involved during combat, so I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the soldiers won't even be able to take advantage of an accurate sub-MOA combat rifle.
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All Tavor threads go the same.
Someone says Tavors can't even get hits on paper. Actual owners chime in that they get 2-3MOA with bulk ammo, sometimes better with match or handloads. Haters pretend those posts don't exist and carry on about missing barns. You don't even have to read them anymore.
I'll say this- The trigger *does* take getting used to, but is perfectly serviceable once you do. Trigger snobs need not apply.
Someone says Tavors can't even get hits on paper. Actual owners chime in that they get 2-3MOA with bulk ammo, sometimes better with match or handloads. Haters pretend those posts don't exist and carry on about missing barns. You don't even have to read them anymore.
I'll say this- The trigger *does* take getting used to, but is perfectly serviceable once you do. Trigger snobs need not apply.
That may be true, but it's moot considering the AK and AUG are unavailable in Canada and the AR is restricted. I'll be the first to admit that it has a $1500 "non restricted tax on it" but when you compare it to the other offerings on the market in its class both models still come out in the upper echelon.
