TDI - Kriss (funky new gun for SHOT)
- Thread starter tootall
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There's not really anything revolutionary about it. Their attempt at redirecting recoil in a calibre that does not produce significant recoil, is a lame attempt at replacing SKILL with technology.
TDC
Yes, it is fugly, but fugly beats boring anyday.
It may or may may not be an answer to a question nobody asked, it may or may not be in an obsolete calibre, but you know what?
Matt emailed me back, and they will try to get me to a local range during the show.
YEAH BABY!!!
It may or may may not be an answer to a question nobody asked, it may or may not be in an obsolete calibre, but you know what?
Matt emailed me back, and they will try to get me to a local range during the show.
YEAH BABY!!!
The .45ACP doesn't produce tons of recoil but enough for the muzzle to start climbing (ever fire a Thompson). I think it's a great concept, look at how low the muzzle is in relation to the grip and stock. For tight in work if you can dump a whole lot of .45 in a small area it would be great. It has limited potential as all around gun but that's not it's purpose. 10mm Would be my preference too.
Anytime you can replace skill with technology is good. This is why we aren't using swords anymore.
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With SKILL most common cartridges to include .308win and 30-06 can be handled with minimal muzzle rise. Full auto takes skill and lots of it. Sub-guns are not heavy on the skill side. They were purpose built to be easy to shoot and handy. Which they are.
As armedsask pointed out, sub-guns are dead. The superior performance of intermediate cartridges far outweigh any benefit a sub-gun has to offer.
The evolution from sword, to bow, to firearm is not indicative of replacing skill with technology. It represents a logical and tactical evolution in how we fight and how the battlefield has influenced how we fight.
The use of optics on firearms is both a replacement of skill with tech. and an evolutionary step in combat. A rifle with optics provides the shooter a much easier method for which to score hits. The skill required to use iron sights can often match the success of an optic based system. However, the ability to identify ones target and engage at greater ranges with greater precision is the benefit of using optics. In todays battlefield such advantages are required to remain "competitive" if you will. The skill required to operate an optic with great success at extended ranges would be similar to the skill required to score hits at intermediate ranges with iron sights.
The Kriss system is not adapting to the requirements of combat, they're simply trying to "dumb down" ones ability to negotiate the ever constant action we call recoil. Taming recoil(especially in a pistol cartridge) is something that has been mastered long ago. The skill of the shooter will always shine brighter than the glow of technology...
Oh yeah, I have fired a Thompson amongst other sub-guns. There is no recoil with the Thompson and next to none with the Sten, Sterling, Uzi, SAF, MP5, or AR15 9mm guns.
TDC
Nonsense. I'll put up a skilled swordsman against an unskilled shooter anyday. The whole point of improving technology is to make things easier for the user to implement, thereby making it more effective.
Recoil has a negative effect on any given weapon system training aside. I see no reason why trying to eliminate recoil or the effects of it can be seen not to be an improvement.
Is the Kriss a quantum leap in technology, no. But technology doesn't usually improve in leaps and bounds.
Laugh Tootall. Me too. Maybe we can co-ordinate our efforts and get to do it together
Free Shooting & New firearm of any type = Fun and worthwhile.I don't understand what you're getting at? Sword loses to firearm, its not a debate.
Advancements in technology to permit one to be more effective is not advancement. It is replacing skill with tech. A wooden sword would definitely allow one to use it with greater ease than a steel sword. A wooden sword only allows for easier deployment, it does not create an advantage and is therefore not effective.
Lighter alloys, or stronger alloys would be a great benefit of technological advancement. Stronger swords that are also lighter in weight would yield better results than swords of greater mass and lesser strength.
Same can be said for the Kriss. It provides nothing for the current combat environment other than to reduce the skill necessary to operate a firearm with success. Sure, this can be a good thing. In the face of current training and knowledge it is nothing more than reinventing the wheel. The lack of recoil produced by pistol calibre firearms, be it sub-guns or semi auto handguns, is not something that requires attention. The use of compensators or muzzle breaks has proven to be a very simple and effective means for diminishing recoil and muzzle movement. The fact the Kriss has a limited capacity and is still a pistol calibre firearm, leaves nothing in the Kriss family to write home about.
TDC
And if they applied the technology to 5.56 etc. would the same discussion be happening? If they could theoretically make a 7.62 recoil feel the same as 5.56 without brakes etc, how would we all feel then? Point is, I agree the technology isn't a "quantum leap", but it is something that no one else has come up with yet and we may all see its merits further down the road.
The way I see the biggest characteristic in the KRISS that improves controllability is the center of axis with the barrel, it's center is in the center of the strong hand axis making muzzle climb very low, kind of like having a high grip on a pistol. Now build this with a 5.56 round could be interesting.
You said it. If this could be done without brakes etc. Why introduce a more complex solution to a problem that has already been solved and solved with much cheaper and mechanically less complex methods?
I do agree. The idea and thinking outside the box is great. This may be a gem in the rough. The product they currently offer is not.
TDC
Try telling that to someone who works close security detail on VIPs and does not have the option of open carry. Subguns, like the B&T TP-9 are small, almost as concealable as a handgun and much easier to deploy from inside a vehicle. I love SBR's but sub-guns have their place (granted in a specialized and somewhat limited role) that no SBR can do half as well. Can't see the sub-gun being "on its way out" anytime soon... at least not until the plasma rifles are in full production Regards,
Regards,
You said it. Specialized roles and in limited numbers. As far as the SWAT or HRT scene is concerned, the sub-gun is old news. Running a TP9 MP5K or similar system is ideal for covert close protection work. How the Kriss compares to proven platforms is beyond me. Proven designs with proven cartridges are doing the job just fine. 45ACP is not the "one shot stop" so many believe. Sub-guns are still pistol calibre firearms.
With the ranges involved with close protection and the minimal recoil offered by a sub-gun I see no need to alter course. The Kriss in its configuration offers no distinct advantage over current offerings.
TDC
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i thought these guys just made prototypes then sold them to manufacturers?
