Tell me about black powder pistols?

popcan

popcan

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I like the look of some of the older revolvers.... but many of them are "black powder" .

What does this mean in practical terms? How do you reload these things? Is it a pain in the ass? Can you use them in CAS?




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(added the pic below of a conversion model - maybe a better way to go?)

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DIRTY, DIRTY ,DIRTY! I have a 1851 navy sherrifs model.

It was a long process to load when I first got it,but,with some time,it becomes easier.
Still takes a little while to load ,but, I really do like black powder revolvers.

The loading proceedure starts by putting fff bp into each chamber,that is as long as each nipple in each chamber is clear,i usually visually inspect each nipple orafice for light before powder.Some people just fire caps in an empty chamber to ensure its cleared,i've never felt the need for this.

seat an appropiate round ball in each chamber,there should be a small lead ring that comes off each ball when seated in cylinder.nice tight fit.This is what the lever is for.

I use bore butter on each seated ball to form seal.this stops possibility of chain fire. This also gives the ball some lube as well since it is not being loaded with a patch like a rifle.



last is to put a cap on each nipple ,this is when the pistol is usually considered loaded.


The amount of powder obviously depends on the calibre,but you want to definatley make sure you don't use too much as the ball will not seat down enough for the gun to cycle.

It is a longer proccess for sure than reloading a centre fire and it can get dirty fast if you allow it.

I really enjoy pulling mine out when being crowded at a range,all that smoke seems to create a little more room.:D

 
They are fun, and cheap to shoot, but you will need some accessories (apart from powder, balls and caps) to make it a pleasant experience.

1. A Pistol stand
2. A Powder measure
3. A Capper

To load, place pistol in stand (item 1), then pour a measure (item 2) of power in each cylinder. Then seat a ball (using the lever arrangment below the bbl) over each load in the cyliner. Cover each cylinder with grease to prevent chain firing. When ready to shoot cap (item 3) each cylinder nipple with a precussion cap and go at er.

This is the condensed version of loading, there a couple of steps to do at the begining of each range trip.

I really enjoy my C&B revolver. Give it a try, It's addicting and leads to other addictions such as 50 cal Hawken and Sharps rifles.
 
skin said:
I don't know much about "black powder" firearms but I do know you can't get black powder any more its called some thing like smokeless powder or is that what thay use in reloads I don't know.
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OK, I gotta ask: Is there a point in posting at all if it's to say you don't know jack about the subject and to mislead the original poster? You most certainly can still get black powder; smokeless powder is something else entirely.

gnmontey said:
They are fun, and cheap to shoot, but you will need some accessories (apart from powder, balls and caps) to make it a pleasant experience...
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I'm gonna piggyback this thread a bit, not knowing much on the subject either. How common is it to load black powder cartridges, as opposed to muzzle-loading, cap & ball firearms?

I understand you can use the same cases, how about primers?
 
buster said:
I've been interested in getting into bp cartriges.iIt is definately not as common,at least i've never seem someone in my travels load for it.
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I load BP 45/70 Gov for an original Springfield Trapdoor, same procedure as smokeless only BP and cast lead bullets. The GS (Alex McCray, long passed away) who fixed the firing pin for me made me promise never to shoot anything but BP and lead bullets in it.

The BP addicition leads to attending randevous, casting bullets, and meeting a whole new goup of really nice folk dedicated to the shooting sport. I highly recommend it.
 
Same cases, same primers, lubricated lead bullets, appropriate charge of powder.
More cleanup afterwards, including the cases.
In cartridge loading, or percussion muzzleloaders, you can use one of the black powder sunstitutes, if you choose. In a flintlock, black is best.
 
Is it true? No more BP? I'm on my last cans of GOEX FF and FFF. When I searched (Calgary) in July all that I could find was cannon powder and FFFF.

The horror.... the horror.........
 
skin said:
I don't know much about "black powder" firearms but I do know you can't get black powder any more its called some thing like smokeless powder or is that what thay use in reloads I don't know. Anyway I won't a "NEW" ruger old army as I don't like antiques. I think you pull down that thing under barrel the to seat the bullet.Looks like fun and makes lots of smoke.
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You cant believe everything people say

WTF you cant get black powder its now called smokeless. I hope that if this guy ever loads smokeless in a cap and ball revolver Im not around to help pick up his fingers.

Many dealers choose not to handle true BP because of all the regulations involved with it. There are atleast two people that I know of in Saskatchewan that import it, and deal with it and feel the hassle is well worth it in the end. Becky at Hillfolk musket supply, And Doug at Rayn'er Shine Gunworks are my two go to people for the real thing.
 
popcan said:
How do you reload these things? Is it a pain in the ass? Can you use them in CAS?


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I just got my first BP revolver (first BP gun for that matter) recently. It's an 1851 navy .36 cal... just about exactly what's in your pic.

To reload there are plenty of online "how to's". A quick google of "how to load a BP revolver" will more than answer that question... I hope that doesn't sound harsh, that's how I learned to do it :D

Is it a pain in the ass?... Well, that's a very personal question. If you like to reload metallic cartridges and enjoy the process as much as the result then likely no. I think it's fun and it imposes a more relaxed pace to a range trip.
Each shot has more value for me as I have a lot more time invested... And the big smoke cloud is a hoot too...

I use a wad (pre-manufactured) over the powder charge before I seat the ball. I don't cover the chamber with grease as the wad serves the same purpose and is a good bit cleaner (from what I have read). This simplifies loading and keeps my fingers clean :) I also don't use a stand, I find I can manage just fine without but I'm sure it would be easier with...

I did pick up a powder measure but I only used it to confirm that a volume charge was so close to a scale weighed charge as to be the same. I have made a small dipper from a .30 carbine shell case trimmed back to throw a 17gr charge and simply scoop and pour into each chamber. I keep a small container (1-2oz) of Goex FFF powder at the bench to load from and top up from the can when needed. The container and primer tin are both closed and set aside when firing to prevent a stray ember touching them off. I have had no problem locating Goex at multiple retailers here in S-Ontario

I picked up a Lyman BP loading book to research charge weight and learn more about BP in general. Lots of good reading...

Cleaning is the PITA as far as I can tell. As I understand it BP fouling is very hygroscopic and will tend to promote rapid oxidization if not thoroughly cleaned shortly after firing. I suppose it is on par with the glut of corrosive 7.62 guns and ammo that are all the rage... Clean now or suffer later :(

CAS... no clue, but I see lots of classic BP revolvers in Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns so that's good enough for me ;)

HTH
MB
 
FFG or FFFG refer to the grains size: the more "F", the finer. FFFG is mostly, if not only, for priming flintlock. FFG or FFFG are okay in a cap & ball revolver or a cartridge up to .45. For rifle and shotgun, you can't go wrong with FFG.

You can get real black powder (Goex brand, for example) or substitute (like Hodgdon's pyrodex of triple 7).

And what is nice about black powder is that you cannot really put too much powder under the bullet :)
 
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skin said:
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Nice...

I don't think anybody here was particularly nasty to you, but when you say "...but I do know you can't get black powder any more its called some thing like smokeless powder..." in a thread about black powder pistols, you should expect some amount of backlash.

gunlaker said:
Here is a great into to black powder cartridge.

http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/Resources/Introduction to BPCR Loading.pdf
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Thanks! Saved for future reference.
 
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You certainly can use that 1851 for CAS events.

I'm sitting here typing this while one of my Uberti 1858 Remington clones soaks for a couple of minutes in a bucket of hotn'soapy to loosen up the fouling. The second will be going into the bucket shortly. I've shot this pair in a few events this summer and while I still have the odd issue with them I'm quickly learning. Yes there's more to attend to and yes they do take a bit longer to load. But the clouds of smoke that come out and roll away downwind are SOOOOO satisfying... :D

They feel totally differently from modern powders. Those slap the hand while black powder pushes. I got to shoot a Colt Walker replica that has close to the muzzle energy as a .357 or .44 Magnum (I'd need to look up the numbers) but was quite comfortable to hold.

There's a couple of the guys I shoot with that load either black powder or one of the substitutes into handgun cartridges as well as their lever rifle cartridges and shot shells so they stay within the black powder class in CAS. This is easily done if the traditional loads are followed.

One aspect to black powder is that it does NOT like anything more than the slightest of air gaps. In fact they are supposed to be compacted for a proper burn. Air gaps lead to serious pressure spikes and bad things happening.

Many of the CAS or even traditional cartridges started as black powder loads. This is why the venerable .38Spl has such a big case, it was designed to hold just the right amount of black powder. To load it the case needs to be filled except for the bullet allowance. The bullet should seat so it's touching or even slightly compressing the powder. Same with the .45 Long Colt cartridge if you're loading it with black or Pyrodex.

It's also not THAT bad to load them. From start to shooting I can load 6 chambers in probably 4 to 5 minutes. I'm not sure since this is just a feeling since I've never timed myself. And that's without a cap dispenser. So far I just fumble them on with my fat fingers. Once I get a cap dispenser the time to load and cap will drop a lot.

If you're someone that enjoys the act of working with and tending your guns you'll really enjoy black powder. If you're someone that just wants to load and pull the trigger stick with modern cartridge guns.

Gotta go and wash the other one now.....
 
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