Tell me what you do not like about your WK180C and what you do like
- Thread starter randyhub
- Start date
For the win ^^^
Don't like the hammer spring but polishing the trigger helped with the grittiness feeling. My worst issue is the top rail machining..... My rings don't sit right.
If you want it lighter and with a shorter barrel why wouldn't you just buy an AR?
16 inch barrel would make it restricted and a shorter barrel does not make a rifle less accurate.
- Location
- Victoria, BC
Yes, but he said he would prefer a shorter barrel which makes it restricted and if he doesn't care if it's restricted then an AR is far better choice.
A WK-180c shares very few AR-15 attributes other than it uses a similar barrel and trigger. Unfortunately people will have a heck of a time finding an 18.5 inch barrel with a carbine length gas port if they want to change it out.
If someone wants something with a lot of AR attributes this isn't the right rifle. Unless of course you just mean a semi auto STANAG magazine fed 223.
Cranky Pants
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I forgot our arcane laws make anything semi with less than 16" (470mm) restricted, I get used to my short barreled shotguns and such. 
I would not want this rifle as restricted, defeats the purpose for me.
I would not want this rifle as restricted, defeats the purpose for me.
I'd be surprised if you could find more than a couple options without having to have one built. It's almost silly to compare these to an AR-15 in any way other than the most basic characteristics of the rifle. Parts interchangeability is very limited.
Not that these really need a barrel swap, they seem to be shooting pretty well from what guys are showing pics of.
If I bother to buy one I'd probably only change the stock and the trigger and other than that I'd just buy ammo. I own an AR 180B-2 and while it shoots well enough this is not a platform I'd sink money into trying to build it into a precision semi.
I forgot our arcane laws make anything semi with less than 16" (470mm) restricted, I get used to my short barreled shotguns and such.
I would not want this rifle as restricted, defeats the purpose for me.
That's what I was hoping you'd say if you came back to clarify.
Completely agree, our laws are asinine, they simply seem to be made up to inconvenience us while doing nothing to reduce crime.
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Likes: Price is excellent. Reliability (of mine) is excellent+. Accuracy (of mine) is not excellent, but acceptable; it's easily a 200-yard coyote rifle...and I treat coyotes like game animals, i.e. I am aiming for the vitals, not just for the critter. Weight? From reading this thread I now "know" that it's too heavy...but my perception when I pick it up is that of a handy lightweight rifle.
Dis-likes: The trigger is beyond horrible; I can literally pick up the cocked rifle by the trigger without tripping it. The grittiness has been noticeably improved by lots of dry-firing, but the weight remains. Thanks to T.B. in this thread, I am going to try a spring swap in an effort to lower the pull weight.
Neutral observations: Yes, the rifle does indeed lack a dust-cover. I honestly don't care; I would probably grab one of those digitally-materialized gizmos just to get the brass deflector function.
I finally found a metal 10-round magazine squirreled away in the basement...and, sure enough, it functions poorly in my rifle. I have lots of 100% functioning plastic mags, and I'm not worried about picking up battle-field cast-offs from fallen enemies, so I really don't care...but I can see how plenty of folks would be disappointed.
And...I'm not in love with the boxy, ugly receiver profile at the bottom rear. But it's a $1000 non-restricted semi-auto .223, so I can't really say that I care about the cosmetics that much.
To me, the WK180 is just a new-age Ruger Mini14...and I mean that as praise, not condemnation, Mine is a wee bit less accurate so far (but not enough so to really bother me), and of course the cool kids like the look better (cosmetically I prefer the Mini by a mile). If you absolutely must have 10-round mags, the WK is your gun.
Dis-likes: The trigger is beyond horrible; I can literally pick up the cocked rifle by the trigger without tripping it. The grittiness has been noticeably improved by lots of dry-firing, but the weight remains. Thanks to T.B. in this thread, I am going to try a spring swap in an effort to lower the pull weight.
Neutral observations: Yes, the rifle does indeed lack a dust-cover. I honestly don't care; I would probably grab one of those digitally-materialized gizmos just to get the brass deflector function.
I finally found a metal 10-round magazine squirreled away in the basement...and, sure enough, it functions poorly in my rifle. I have lots of 100% functioning plastic mags, and I'm not worried about picking up battle-field cast-offs from fallen enemies, so I really don't care...but I can see how plenty of folks would be disappointed.
And...I'm not in love with the boxy, ugly receiver profile at the bottom rear. But it's a $1000 non-restricted semi-auto .223, so I can't really say that I care about the cosmetics that much.
To me, the WK180 is just a new-age Ruger Mini14...and I mean that as praise, not condemnation, Mine is a wee bit less accurate so far (but not enough so to really bother me), and of course the cool kids like the look better (cosmetically I prefer the Mini by a mile). If you absolutely must have 10-round mags, the WK is your gun.
- Location
- Victoria, BC
Yeah, it's not like lugging a FAL around. overall it's pretty light.
But I decided to test my own perception by busting-out the kitchen scale:
(all guns with iron sights, unloaded, no mags)
My 16" barrel AR (Bushmaster QRC, M-4 stock w rubber buttpad) is just a tad over 6lbs
My 18.6" Mini 14 with factory (wood) folding stock is 7.5lbs
My 18.6" MDI SLR (M-4 stock w rubber buttpad) is 7.5 lbs
My WK180 (M-4 stock w rubber buttpad) is 8.25lbs
I lost a 1/4lb with the WK by switching to a skeleton stock. But it's still 8lbs unloaded. Another 1 3/4lbs and you're into FAL territory.
I wasn't expecting to see the 180c at 8.25 pounds. My AR180B-2 is 6.8 pounds empty according to my digital luggage scale. I guess the heavier profile barrel and aluminum lower adds up to a little more than I was expecting. I would have preferred a lighter barrel but at least some guys are reporting good accuracy.
Good to hear more guys are learning that. Preorder is not worth it. Plus, if you make them wait to get your money they'll be more inclined to get them to us faster and built right the first time.
Me too cancelled my order three months into it - had a gut feeling about it - still think they look cool will wait for a gen2 or gen3 to come out (if they do) with all the gen1 issues taken care of. In the mean time I am trying very hard to free bore my Tikka T3x hoping to see firecracking, pitting, errosion of neck etc when I get my bore scope next week. I will be amazed if it still looked good after 3,700 rounds
- Location
- Victoria, BC
That's what they did this time around. At $200 per deposit they likely weren't even covering their operating expenses. I am certain they are trying to get those rifles made as fast as possible, because each one is an un-cashed cheque for $800. At their end, this is a venture that costs literally millions of dollars, and that's *after* the R&D costs and all the time and expense of acquiring an FRT number. They were rolling the dice by even embarking on this project, and they were probably overwhelmed by the response. The $200 deposit (which they make remarkably easy to recover $150 if you change your mind) is an absolutely necessary step in the process. How many times have you sold something on ebay or craigslist or even here and have the buyer flake on you? Now imagine that happening with $2,000,000 of inventory on your hands.
Yeah, the waiting is frustrating. Maybe next time they can post updates to give people a realistic timeline: "order numbers 500-700 will be shipping by end of August", for example.
But on the other hand, the upside to waiting is getting a rifle examples of which routinely sell quickly on this forum for $1350, for $999. We take a hit by waiting, they take a hit by discounting the purchase price to create a pool of *serious* buyers.
I don't know, I see a lot of guys complaining about this offer. The terms were laid-out bare a year ago, with an option to back out of a purchase agreement for a $50 surcharge. Kodiak and Wolverine have been totally transparent in every aspect of this project. Anyone who feels "ripped off" by any part of it is a little misguided. We're lucky we have manufacturers in this country willing to exert the time and energy to offer something like the WK180C based on a couple of thousand potential buyers saying they might get one. I'm not in the gun business but a few years ago I saw a market for a service business, and got really good response from all the potential clients I would have. Everybody said they would "totally use that. Hurry up and get it out there!". $185,000 in building and other costs later, most of those "totally into it" clients had flaked, and I lost a ton of money. Frankly, unless you can swizz the government into footing the bill for your project, offering a product or service in Canada is a huge gamble and massive PITA. The reason so few US gun companies even bother with us is because the buyer pool is too small and the profit margins are so tight. I wouldn't bother with us either!
Footnote: About six months ago (before ASC started offering them) I was going to put up $10,000 to do a run of 500 10/30 all-steel AR pistol mags. I have a friend with a shop that is well-equipped to make them. I decided against it, and here's why:
I know for a fact if I posted on this board offering those mags @ $35-40 a piece I would get 100 guys saying they'd take at least five. And I also know for a fact that 4 weeks later when they are ready to ship about half of those guys would mysteriously no longer be interested, and I'd be stuck with 200 or so mags. Oh, and despite reasonable quality checks, there would be one defective mag and the guy who gets it will - instead of contacting me and getting two good ones in exchange for his one bad one as my way of making it up to him - complain all over CGN and (other boards) about how all my mags are crap quality, thereby undermining the confidence of the buyer pool. That's just how this community - and most enthusiast communities - work. People who go out on a limb to provide something "in demand" (whether it's an unobtanium part, or an event, or whatever) get left holding the bag more often than not.
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Well said!
Give this man a cigar! What a refreshing change from the prevalent "Hey! I'm getting screwed on this pre-order!" BS that is constantly cropping up here.
Sure, there are people who don't like the product when they have it in hand, for whatever reason. That's to be expected with any product. But, wow, the constant belly-aching about features of the pre-order that were clearly spelled out in advance is getting really tiresome.
Great comments.
It is not easy getting a new product to market especially at a fair price point.
My buddy dropped two and half times this amount on a XCR and guess what, it has been back for warranty work due to design issues.
Contacted both Wolverine and Kodiak about my WK180C feeding issues, they we great and spoke with me politely. In the end it was crappy Russian ammo!
So I will support these guys as no one is geting ripped off at ths price point, and yes I would be frustrated as well with the delays but they were pretty clear in what was posted on the Preorder process.
I just got lucky with a tip when a Dealer got 15 extra rifles in, and yes I do like this rifle design.
It is not easy getting a new product to market especially at a fair price point.
My buddy dropped two and half times this amount on a XCR and guess what, it has been back for warranty work due to design issues.
Contacted both Wolverine and Kodiak about my WK180C feeding issues, they we great and spoke with me politely. In the end it was crappy Russian ammo!
So I will support these guys as no one is geting ripped off at ths price point, and yes I would be frustrated as well with the delays but they were pretty clear in what was posted on the Preorder process.
I just got lucky with a tip when a Dealer got 15 extra rifles in, and yes I do like this rifle design.
- Location
- Victoria, BC
Yeah, full disclosure: I pre-ordered a WK180 from Wolverine but canceled my order when a new one came up in a private sale. I'm happy with the rifle overall. It's not pretty; it's a workhorse. And I've always liked the old Land Cruiser over the new Range Rover. Also, even compared to an AR, the WK is a snap to clean. It's so basic. And not sure about others, but mine had accepted every kind of mag I can find, and has no problems with that crappy Russian steelcase most ARs hate.
And considering it's pretty much the only all-metal NR STANAG option for under $1200, it's a very good deal. I just built my Maccabee SLR the most economical way possible and it was still around $2k by the time the dust had settled. I expect my Modern Sporter will be closer to $2500 if I'm lucky.
I'm positive that if Kodiak had just released these into the retail market when production was concluded - rather than do the pre-order system - these would be flying off the shelves at a $1300 MSRP. But that would have involved an even larger investment from Kodiak and Wolverine and I don't know if they have those kinds of resources. Say their cost per unit is $600 (just a guess - I have no idea), distributing 3,000 of them would be over $1.8 million. That's a lot of outlay for a medium-sized manufacturer in an industry that (I wager) has a hard time getting big-lender financing. No charter bank or credit union is going to want to be associated with an arms manufacturer. Not with the ex-drama teacher at the helm. Anyone who wants to build guns in this country is going to have to self-subsidize.
There will be improvements made to the WK180, and aftermarket support will follow. Be patient, and enjoy!
