Tested some loads in my .444 Marlin (pics)

bcsteve

bcsteve

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
128   0   0
Location
BC
Went to the range yesterday and tested those loads. VERY happy with the results. Shot at 100yds. Can't wait to get my new stock with a nice recoil pad (ouch!)

IMG_0572.jpg


The Hornady 265gr JFP grouped right at 1"
IMG_0574-1.jpg


The Hornady 300gr XTP and Speer 300gr UC made a 5 shot (+one flyer) cluster of +/- 1". Was suprised that the two loads had the exact same point of impact.
IMG_0576.jpg


The 265gr LeverEvolution were a little wider at slightly under 1.5"
IMG_0575-1.jpg


The 295gr HP Cast didn't do as well with a 3" group. Maybe I'll try pushing them a little faster.
IMG_0577.jpg
 
BC Steve...what diameter were the cast bullets? and what type of rifling does your Marlin have? Micro groove or Ballard cut rifling? My testing has shown that for the .44 and .444 marlin with microgroove rifling bullet diameter should be .432", well above normal .44 bullet dia. Cast bullets tend to "skid" when they hit shallow rifling unless the bullet fit is real tight, maybe "skid" isn't the right word, but if you measure the rifling imprint on a fired bullet you should find the groove wider then the matching barrel lands. This results in inaccuracy, and i don't believe that pushing them faster will help, in fact it probably will make the groups wider......Shooting big leverguns sure is the best!!!
 
ben hunchak said:
BC Steve...what diameter were the cast bullets? and what type of rifling does your Marlin have? Micro groove or Ballard cut rifling? My testing has shown that for the .44 and .444 marlin with microgroove rifling bullet diameter should be .432", well above normal .44 bullet dia. Cast bullets tend to "skid" when they hit shallow rifling unless the bullet fit is real tight, maybe "skid" isn't the right word, but if you measure the rifling imprint on a fired bullet you should find the groove wider then the matching barrel lands. This results in inaccuracy, and i don't believe that pushing them faster will help, in fact it probably will make the groups wider......Shooting big leverguns sure is the best!!!
Click to expand...

Yes, I've read that .432" is what is recomended. My rifle is as Microgroove barrel and those bullets are .432" casted by hunter64. From what I've read on marlinowners.com, most guys say that cast bullets in the Microgroove like to be pushed hard. This is what I'm basing my comment but honestly I don't have any experience with cast bullets.

marcoman said:
Had great success with Hornady 300gr. XTP's as well. This is also a surprisingly tough/durable bullet even at .444 velocitys.
Click to expand...

Got to admit that I'm a little leary about the 300gr XTP being a HP designed for the .44 Mag. I'm sure it would be an awesome deer load but I wonder if it be too soft for a "do it all" load that could be used on moose. My next testing phase will be to test these bullets in wet newspaper and see the outcome.

gitrdun said:
What powder are you using with the 265gr. Hornady's bcsteve? That is good grouping BTW.
Click to expand...

H4198 for everything. 46gr for the 265 JFP at around 2300fps and 42.5gr for the 295/300gr at around 2200fps.
 
Great loads. Thanks for the post. Big question.. I have 44 mag and 4570. The safe does not have a 444... I like the idea but is it worth it with the owning the other 2. Always saw good reports on the 444.

The newer models are they now Ballard rifling? Thanks for any input.
 
With a .45-70 in the safe, I don't really see a logical reason to also own a .444 but who uses logic when buying guns!?:p If you go on marlinowners.com their are endless debates on the .444 vs .45-70 with good arguments on either sides. Yes, the newer Marlins have the faster twist ballard rifling that are easier to get cast bullets to shoot well.
 
bcsteve...Thank you. The 444 is now on my to get list. What dies do you like for the 444. Lyman RCBS ..??

Thanks. I like the idea of a rifle that can use the same cast bullets as my 44 mag.
 
Cast bullets have to be at least .431 and .432 is better and they need to be pushed very hard. I found with the 295gn cast bullets that I designed that if you go slow you will get 3-5" groups at 50 yards, push them hard and you get 5 bullets touching each other.
 
What do you consider "hard"? I used the same load that I was using with the jacketed 300gr and they were clocking at around 2170fps. I didn't chrono the cast 295gr.
 
I have tried all sorts of powders for the .444 Marlin and for my 4 rifles they all prefer IMR3031 or H322, not sure why just what I have observed.

For the 295 HP cast bullet I use 50 grn of H322 now mind you that is slightly over what the book says is the max by 1/2 a grain but in my guns and chambers they are fine. No signs of over pressure, easy extraction, primers correct and measure with calipers for expanded cases. Your experiments may very and be different so you have been warned.

Make no mistake about it, this load will kick and if you are prone to flinching then you might be better off with loading lighter and quicker instead of heavy and quick but as your targets point out I think you are just fine with a heavy kicker.

If you shoot copper bullets first and don't clean out the barrel before you try cast bullets you will have lack luster accuracy. This is what I have observed over the many years that I have been shooting cast and jacketed bullets.

As with any lever action rifle the point of impact can vary more than one would imagine.

Depending on the temperature outside of course I usually will shoot two shots, clean the residue out of the barrel with a bore snake (just pull it thru) and let the barrel cool down to where you can place your hand on it and just feel it is slightly warm, or about 10-15 minutes.

Then I shoot two more shots and repeat with the cooling and shoot a 5th shot to complete the group.

Now this is time consuming and a PITA but I know for certain that the load I am testing is not influenced by the natural tendency of a lever action to string shots vertically or horizontally as the barrel heats up and is influenced by the cartridge/ammo tube not fitting correctly and pushing undue pressure here and there.

I have a 30/30 Model 94 that if I shoot quickly, say 10 shots in 3 minutes or so the first shot will be right on and the second will be higher and to the left and by the 10th shot it will be about 5" high and 2" to the left. I shoot the same rifle with the cool down period with the same load and I have a nice 2" group at 100 meters.

My 2 cents anyway.
 
The results I got witht the cast 295gr may have something to do with shooting the jacketed bullet first as you mentionned. I was worried with the opposite, the cast bullet leading my barrel and giving poor results with the jacketed bullets.

I was pleased to see that this rifle didn't seem to be too picky about about point of impact. These groups were pretty much shot one shot after the other with minimal rest and there was no signs of stringing.

hunger64, at what speed are you shooting those 295gr?
 
My loads have been clocked at 2200-2240 fps and as high as 2280 fps this is over max recommended but in my rifle they work fine.

Glad to here that your point of impact doesn't vary much, I also have one rifle that is the same as yours and the other three are a little more picky.
 
I acquired a Marlin 444S quite a few years ago but I thought the factory loads using a 240gr bullet, while okay on Deer, left something to be desired for use on Moose. Hornady's 265grFP was a considerable improvement, accuracy wise and in their effects on Moose.

Using the 265gr jacketed bullet, IMR 4198 works well although my best accuracy has been with IMR 3031. I haven't been disappointed with the results on a number of Deer and Moose.

I've used a few cast bullets, but primarily for 'plinking'. A 240grPB, 250grGC and a 325grGC and using Unique and presently starting to experiment with Trail Boss.

With eyesight not being quite as sharp as it once was, and for load testing, I've mounted a 1.5-4.5 variable using Weaver pivot mounts. This set up allows me quick access to the iron sights, should the need arise. I have the same set up on my Marlin 1895GS.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom