I tried doing some searching here on this, but the information was scattered over dozens of posts: I am hoping to get it in one spot!
So recently I have decided to take the level of reloading I am doing farther to get better long range accuracy. Up to now I have mainly been concerned with quality components and best powder/bullet combination for accuracy. I would like to get into ensuring brass consistency more and checking other particulars of reloading.
My questions are: When do you start experimenting with jump to lands, crimp and other particulars? If I have consistent brass (let's say Lapua) using excellent dies (let's use Forster for example) should I then somehow measure my chamber to see how far out a bullet in the case would be if it touched the lands? I assume I would want to reload a case at "book" length with multiple powder amounts in small increments to find the most accurate load (this is where I often stopped); but then after that would you work on crimp first? Jump to lands first? Both at the same time? Or is that order of process all wrong? Ignoring quality and types of brass, primer, powder and bullet is there a method I am forgetting?
In an effort to help further searches by other CGN members I would prefer to ignore rifle type/design & caliber, assuming length of the finished round does not need to be made for a magazine.
There are resources out there, I know... there will also be a lot of opinions here too... But I also know CGN has some damn good F-Class and other competition shooters with phenomenally good opinions.
Thank you!
EDIT #1: In an effort to keep the "answer" together here is my "amalgamated and very abbreviated" result of people's posts. You might have to Google what a term means and/or how to get/do something: the idea here is process, not details! I am going to try it this way up to completing step 7 and might update eventually. Remember, this is the most thorough process I based on combining everyone's ides/opinions and you can stop at any time after step 6.
This process is up for debate, of course, and likely will be.
1. Get the rifle on paper at 100 yards/meters with some cheap ammo. Have good fire formed brass ready, either because of reloading, once fired in your gun factory ammo and/or cream of wheat method.
2. Know your magazine's maximum length it will feed a round (ignore if magazine not present). Know your chamber "jam" length, where the bullet in a case will touch the lands.
3. Load rounds at maximum length that feeds in the magazine all the time, or barely shy of jam length (about 0.005 less than "jam" length so during testing you don't get a bullet to pull out of the case and stick in the chamber), which ever is shorter. (If jam length is shorter than magazine capacity, loading longer won't fit in chamber... if magazine length is shorter than jam length won't feed). Be aware that cannelures may not be used, and due to boat-tail or short bullets these measurements may be restricted as well!
4. Load with 2 to 3 thou of neck tension, no crimp, and do a 2 shot ladder test with 0.3 grains increments between manual minimum and maximum loads. Do all testing at 200 yards/meters where there is larger group spread than 100 yards/meters but less wind deviation than 300 yards/meters plus. (as per Jerry of Mystic Precision's article). [estimate: 10-16 rounds]
5. Once you find a "node" where shots are very horizontal with no deviation (same vertical area, as wind may move it sideways), within that "node" load 3 or 5 shot groups with 0.1 deviations in powder (as per posts here). If you see no changes you might have to move out to 300 yards/meters plus to see them. [estimate: 9-20 rounds]
6. Watch for "clocking" of the groups: you want a group with more of a horizontal grouping than vertical. The tightest vertical is better as horizontal can be wind drift.
7. Now start checking the "jump to lands" variant by doing 3 shot groups with that powder measurement. Try a load at "jam" length if you are able (magazine length, remember) and some other loads at 0.006, 0.009, 0.012 and 0.015" shorter than your starting load. Be aware that short, light bullets may not have the length to do this. You are looking for tightening of the groups, again primarily on how much vertical change. Again, you might have to move out to 300 yards/meters plus to see changes. (As per quoted Sierra article). [estimate: 12 to 15 rounds]
8. Now start checking the "neck tension" variant by doing 3 shot groups with that powder measurement and length; unless you need to crimp (skip this step). Try 1-2 thou of neck tension and 3-4 thou of neck tension. Again, checking for vertical change. [6 rounds]
9. Lastly, you can try 3 shot groups with varying crimp as well with that powder and length. This step would primarily be done on "hard recoiling" rifles like large magnums without brakes and semi-automatics like the M1A platform, and negates the neck tension. [estimate: 6 to 15 rounds]
This method, complete, can be done with as little as 19 rounds (1 box of ammo) if you stop at step 6 or as much as 72 rounds if you go all the way.
EDIT #2: I did the Cream of Wheat method and settled on 21% case fill of Bullseye, a cleaning patch over top and then ground oatmeal up to the middle of the neck: this pushed the shoulder forward firmly and expanded the neck without any pressure signs. Some light pressure to pack the body and then some firm pressure packing the neck meant I could shake out the tiny bit loose on the top and forgo anything to hold it in. I cleaned the action and barrel after every 8 rounds and let the barrel cool (how long it took to get a gently warm chamber). After 200 rounds there was no discernible difference in a before and after with a bore scope.
Some note:
- Work your way up from 10% as everyone says! I seen noticeable change start at 13% and no more change from 20% to 21% to 22% and 23%... and settled on a safety margin of 21%. Any single change in the equasion of brass, primer, powder & filler changes the percentage you need: that is why I left this out of this thread!!! For you 21% could do nothing... or break something!!!
- Don't double charge by mistake, I made a dowel with a mark to be sure. 21% of fast powder made a "whump" like a 20ga shotgun blast, I don't know what 42% would do.
- I used a handgun cleaning rod and plastic jag to pack everything so as not to scratch anything.
This method saved running 200 rounds down the barrel and about $40.00 in bullets and powder at least per 100.
I found my OAL length of the chamber by neck sizing one of the fire formed/sized rounds to just hold a bullet firmly, stuck the bullet in the case a tiny bit past the boat tail and then coated that bullet liberally in lube. Closing the chamber on this round a couple of times gave me a length to measure with my Hornady case comparator. (Remember to clean that bullet and chamber).
I then checked this length with my magazine to find the shorter of the two. I luckily have a long magazine, so I am loading some test rounds for step 4 above at 0.020 shorter than "jam length" so I am even with the start of a cannelure. I know this is not the 0.005 I stated but I have a long throat it seems and bullet length becomes an issue.
EDIT #3: I did the ladder test with three shot groups today in a 15km'h wind straight into the muzzle of the firearm at 228 meters (250 yards). This test was with with 3 thou of neck tension, no crimp, 0.020 shorter than "jam length", with 0.3 grains increments starting at manual minimum and finishing 0.6 grains over maximum load. I found easily two "nods" where shots were very horizontal with no deviation up and down. First node had the tightest group at an inch of horizontal displacement and zero vertical change. The second node was tightest at the book stated maximum load (but over maximum book speed) with the tiniest sign of over pressure from the ejector but not the firing pin: under an inch of horizontal and zero vertical change. I am now going to move on to the next step by starting 0.3 grains less and up to 0.3 grains over each accuracy node, being extremely careful with the second node being at book maximum and over book max speed.
As a note: "Clocking" was clearly evident with a counter clockwise rotation (with more powder) and the worst group was at book minimum (slightly over 3" in a mostly vertical triangular group) followed by the next worst load perfectly between the two nodes (slightly under 2.5" in a nearly perfectly vertical group).
EDIT #4: I decided to not load the tightest node being that it was at book maximum load and faster than is should have been for the set up the book writers used in their testing. This test I completed today (Steps 5 & 6 above) I loaded 7 sets of test loads at 5 rounds each fired at 300 meters, 0.3 grains less than best node up to 0.3 grains over best node. Groupings in the 12Km/h average, 22Km/h gusts, at a 60 degree angle from the right went from 1.5 inch of horizontal and vertical deviation (at 0.3 grains over) to one group (at 0.1 less) that was 3/4 of an inch for four rounds and one flyer (my fault: at the same vertical height but a couple of inches to the left). The identical deviation of clocking was seen as expected: the best node was at a perfect horizontal, while going up or down in powder moved the rotation in the expected direction (more powder counter-clockwise). I plan on using this load for work with steps 7 & 8.
So recently I have decided to take the level of reloading I am doing farther to get better long range accuracy. Up to now I have mainly been concerned with quality components and best powder/bullet combination for accuracy. I would like to get into ensuring brass consistency more and checking other particulars of reloading.
My questions are: When do you start experimenting with jump to lands, crimp and other particulars? If I have consistent brass (let's say Lapua) using excellent dies (let's use Forster for example) should I then somehow measure my chamber to see how far out a bullet in the case would be if it touched the lands? I assume I would want to reload a case at "book" length with multiple powder amounts in small increments to find the most accurate load (this is where I often stopped); but then after that would you work on crimp first? Jump to lands first? Both at the same time? Or is that order of process all wrong? Ignoring quality and types of brass, primer, powder and bullet is there a method I am forgetting?
In an effort to help further searches by other CGN members I would prefer to ignore rifle type/design & caliber, assuming length of the finished round does not need to be made for a magazine.
There are resources out there, I know... there will also be a lot of opinions here too... But I also know CGN has some damn good F-Class and other competition shooters with phenomenally good opinions.
Thank you!
EDIT #1: In an effort to keep the "answer" together here is my "amalgamated and very abbreviated" result of people's posts. You might have to Google what a term means and/or how to get/do something: the idea here is process, not details! I am going to try it this way up to completing step 7 and might update eventually. Remember, this is the most thorough process I based on combining everyone's ides/opinions and you can stop at any time after step 6.
This process is up for debate, of course, and likely will be.
1. Get the rifle on paper at 100 yards/meters with some cheap ammo. Have good fire formed brass ready, either because of reloading, once fired in your gun factory ammo and/or cream of wheat method.
2. Know your magazine's maximum length it will feed a round (ignore if magazine not present). Know your chamber "jam" length, where the bullet in a case will touch the lands.
3. Load rounds at maximum length that feeds in the magazine all the time, or barely shy of jam length (about 0.005 less than "jam" length so during testing you don't get a bullet to pull out of the case and stick in the chamber), which ever is shorter. (If jam length is shorter than magazine capacity, loading longer won't fit in chamber... if magazine length is shorter than jam length won't feed). Be aware that cannelures may not be used, and due to boat-tail or short bullets these measurements may be restricted as well!
4. Load with 2 to 3 thou of neck tension, no crimp, and do a 2 shot ladder test with 0.3 grains increments between manual minimum and maximum loads. Do all testing at 200 yards/meters where there is larger group spread than 100 yards/meters but less wind deviation than 300 yards/meters plus. (as per Jerry of Mystic Precision's article). [estimate: 10-16 rounds]
5. Once you find a "node" where shots are very horizontal with no deviation (same vertical area, as wind may move it sideways), within that "node" load 3 or 5 shot groups with 0.1 deviations in powder (as per posts here). If you see no changes you might have to move out to 300 yards/meters plus to see them. [estimate: 9-20 rounds]
6. Watch for "clocking" of the groups: you want a group with more of a horizontal grouping than vertical. The tightest vertical is better as horizontal can be wind drift.
7. Now start checking the "jump to lands" variant by doing 3 shot groups with that powder measurement. Try a load at "jam" length if you are able (magazine length, remember) and some other loads at 0.006, 0.009, 0.012 and 0.015" shorter than your starting load. Be aware that short, light bullets may not have the length to do this. You are looking for tightening of the groups, again primarily on how much vertical change. Again, you might have to move out to 300 yards/meters plus to see changes. (As per quoted Sierra article). [estimate: 12 to 15 rounds]
8. Now start checking the "neck tension" variant by doing 3 shot groups with that powder measurement and length; unless you need to crimp (skip this step). Try 1-2 thou of neck tension and 3-4 thou of neck tension. Again, checking for vertical change. [6 rounds]
9. Lastly, you can try 3 shot groups with varying crimp as well with that powder and length. This step would primarily be done on "hard recoiling" rifles like large magnums without brakes and semi-automatics like the M1A platform, and negates the neck tension. [estimate: 6 to 15 rounds]
This method, complete, can be done with as little as 19 rounds (1 box of ammo) if you stop at step 6 or as much as 72 rounds if you go all the way.
EDIT #2: I did the Cream of Wheat method and settled on 21% case fill of Bullseye, a cleaning patch over top and then ground oatmeal up to the middle of the neck: this pushed the shoulder forward firmly and expanded the neck without any pressure signs. Some light pressure to pack the body and then some firm pressure packing the neck meant I could shake out the tiny bit loose on the top and forgo anything to hold it in. I cleaned the action and barrel after every 8 rounds and let the barrel cool (how long it took to get a gently warm chamber). After 200 rounds there was no discernible difference in a before and after with a bore scope.
Some note:
- Work your way up from 10% as everyone says! I seen noticeable change start at 13% and no more change from 20% to 21% to 22% and 23%... and settled on a safety margin of 21%. Any single change in the equasion of brass, primer, powder & filler changes the percentage you need: that is why I left this out of this thread!!! For you 21% could do nothing... or break something!!!
- Don't double charge by mistake, I made a dowel with a mark to be sure. 21% of fast powder made a "whump" like a 20ga shotgun blast, I don't know what 42% would do.
- I used a handgun cleaning rod and plastic jag to pack everything so as not to scratch anything.
This method saved running 200 rounds down the barrel and about $40.00 in bullets and powder at least per 100.
I found my OAL length of the chamber by neck sizing one of the fire formed/sized rounds to just hold a bullet firmly, stuck the bullet in the case a tiny bit past the boat tail and then coated that bullet liberally in lube. Closing the chamber on this round a couple of times gave me a length to measure with my Hornady case comparator. (Remember to clean that bullet and chamber).
I then checked this length with my magazine to find the shorter of the two. I luckily have a long magazine, so I am loading some test rounds for step 4 above at 0.020 shorter than "jam length" so I am even with the start of a cannelure. I know this is not the 0.005 I stated but I have a long throat it seems and bullet length becomes an issue.
EDIT #3: I did the ladder test with three shot groups today in a 15km'h wind straight into the muzzle of the firearm at 228 meters (250 yards). This test was with with 3 thou of neck tension, no crimp, 0.020 shorter than "jam length", with 0.3 grains increments starting at manual minimum and finishing 0.6 grains over maximum load. I found easily two "nods" where shots were very horizontal with no deviation up and down. First node had the tightest group at an inch of horizontal displacement and zero vertical change. The second node was tightest at the book stated maximum load (but over maximum book speed) with the tiniest sign of over pressure from the ejector but not the firing pin: under an inch of horizontal and zero vertical change. I am now going to move on to the next step by starting 0.3 grains less and up to 0.3 grains over each accuracy node, being extremely careful with the second node being at book maximum and over book max speed.
As a note: "Clocking" was clearly evident with a counter clockwise rotation (with more powder) and the worst group was at book minimum (slightly over 3" in a mostly vertical triangular group) followed by the next worst load perfectly between the two nodes (slightly under 2.5" in a nearly perfectly vertical group).
EDIT #4: I decided to not load the tightest node being that it was at book maximum load and faster than is should have been for the set up the book writers used in their testing. This test I completed today (Steps 5 & 6 above) I loaded 7 sets of test loads at 5 rounds each fired at 300 meters, 0.3 grains less than best node up to 0.3 grains over best node. Groupings in the 12Km/h average, 22Km/h gusts, at a 60 degree angle from the right went from 1.5 inch of horizontal and vertical deviation (at 0.3 grains over) to one group (at 0.1 less) that was 3/4 of an inch for four rounds and one flyer (my fault: at the same vertical height but a couple of inches to the left). The identical deviation of clocking was seen as expected: the best node was at a perfect horizontal, while going up or down in powder moved the rotation in the expected direction (more powder counter-clockwise). I plan on using this load for work with steps 7 & 8.
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