torontogunguy
Regular
- Location
- Southern Ontario
You get what you pay for. Remember that.
Thank you Marstar for the Norinco CQ special.
- Thread starter flyrrad
- Start date
You get what you pay for. Remember that.
torontogunguy
Regular
- Location
- Southern Ontario
How they can manufacture this piece for sale at this price is beyond me. Truly. Think about it. The manufacturer needs to make some margin. The manufacturers' government wants their cut in the way of taxes. Product needs to be shipped overseas. Product needs to be cleared through customs, et. al. AND they want their share. Product needs to be shipped inland. Product needs to be received, handled, marketed, sold, packaged and shipped by distributor and/or dealer. They want their cut. Product arrives at buyer. What was the actual cost to manufacture? Perhaps $200? $300? What exactly can we expect in the way of quality and precision at these prices? I suspect not a whole lot more than "zip gun" quality and precision. Loose as a goose and they will fire anything you put in them of course. Hit a large target close up? No problem of course. Need a rifle that is going to perform like an AR? Highly unlikely without even having to handle one. Better off to buy a loose as a goose pistol from Norinco. Smaller, lighter, easier to handle, cheaper ammo. I just cannot see these "AR's" being much more than a cheap loose as a goose pistol with a longer cheap barrel and a longer cheap stock molded from cheap plastic. I could be wrong, of course, but am saying I find it extremely unlikely that you are getting much more than that... and with a spray painted finish to boot. Just sayin'. I've owned many firearms - more than most. And the one thing that I have learned over the years of firearms ownership is simply this... and in a nutshell.... "you get what you pay for". Do not (please!) expect any miracles or freebies. In my 50 years of firearms enjoyment I have never seen otherwise. For whatever it's worth. And having said all of that and being a gunnut..... I'd sure like to stick a decent sight on one of these and run a thousand rounds through it to see exactly what it winds up being. I have never NEVER seen a miracle but this could be a case of China dumping into North America, in which case, for the first time in my lifetime, those that bought them lucked out.
"You get what you pay for" is generally what I work with.
"You get what you pay for" is generally what I work with.
GUB
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- West Kelowna B.C.
Of course you do!! But they are fun to shoot, cheap ammo, work and function extremly well and hit paper every time. For under a $1000 anyone sitting on the fence about buying one? Just buy you won't be dissapointed.
my72jeep
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northern Ont.
P
Remember the average Daily wage in China is less than we pay for a cup of coffee.
Remember the average Daily wage in China is less than we pay for a cup of coffee.
- Location
- Ottawa, Ontario
Chuckle! IIRC the US Government is paying something in the ~$400 range for their M4 rifles...
China supplies firearms to ANYONE who has the $$$, and their labour rates are CHEAP compared to North America...
As for the quality of the M4 clones Norinco makes. All I can tell you is that the two Marstar rifles we own, have never malfunctioned. Great fun at the range!
Cheers
Jay
torontogunguy
Regular
- Location
- Southern Ontario
As long as folks remember that they are getting what they are paying for, no problemos! Don't know about cheap ammo but don't doubt that they work well. The AK47 in 1970 fired pretty much anything you put into it, worked when filthy with caked on crud but were not very accurate. They were not made to be accurate - they were made to be mass produced cheaply and for close up "spray and pray". It won a war for the NVA and Chinese regular army on that basis. Put a round through the paper every time? I am going to say that I've got to see that for myself yet.... I can throw a round and put a hole through the paper as long as it's close enough. They question I posed was accuracy at range... say at 100M or more. I would want any of my rifles for defensive purposes to put rounds on paper at 25M plus at a minimum and preferable at 100M. I can put rounds on paper at 25M with any of my pistols so there is no point using a rifle to do it, except, as you say, for fun. My Colt AR will put rounds in a 3-4" circle on the target at 100M all day long (with added sight of course). THAT, to me is the purpose of having a rifle. At 25M I am more inclined to use a good pistol.
You are absolutely correct though, at this price it gives the shooters a chance to play with an AR for cheap.
And dealing with Marstar is a no-brainer. They are one of the dealers that is rock solid and will take care of you with little in the way of questions, striving to make you happy and keep you as a devoted customer. And while it has been some time since I dealt with them I can attest to the aforementioned wholeheartedly.
If my indoor range allowed non-frangible .223 (which is ~$1/rnd) I would pick one of these up….just for fun.
Sure, I have "expensive/quality" HG's that I shoot but I don't see the point of a restricted rifle sitting in my cabinet. YMMV
@ $529.95 with an anodize finish and chrome lined bbl….I'm tempted,regardless.
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GUB
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- West Kelowna B.C.
In todays market and world situation. This is the best deal and value ever seen! For me a gun is a tool. To be kept clean and well maintained. Just because it is cheaper then the american M4's does not mean it is not a good tool. Anyone buying this gun is not looking for a 300 yd. tack driver. We can all buy a more expensive anything? Does the more expensive one function better?? Of course not!!!
I was on the fence about keeping mine....I have an A3 Bushmaster that was $1000, a DPMS/Dlask hybrid M4 that I built for $800, and a 10.5" upper I built with all Canadian pieces for under $400. First impression of the CQA was wow...what a poorly made pos. What the Chinese use to do well that made their guns passable for me was mill everything out of forged steel. Every big part and every little part was milled. This gave them a robust reputation at least. With the latest Nork 1911 and now the CQA, I'm seeing lots if cast and mimmed steel parts. From a company that specializes in cast or mim its no big deal. I just don't think the Chinese are up to speed making quality cast and mim parts. Literally every major component and every small part on the CQA is cast or mim other then the barrel. That can help explain why they can be retailed so cheap.
I'm going to keep it and shoot it though, I have to at least see if it can print decent groups and decide from there if I will dump it on the EE. It is a $530 firearm, not worth a penny more then that IMHO. Certainly doesn't even compare very well to even the cheapest US made AR15's we can get.
I'm going to keep it and shoot it though, I have to at least see if it can print decent groups and decide from there if I will dump it on the EE. It is a $530 firearm, not worth a penny more then that IMHO. Certainly doesn't even compare very well to even the cheapest US made AR15's we can get.
NintendoDuckHunt87
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ontario
Pretty sure this was a "thanks for the great deal Marstar" thread, not an "American made vs. Chinese made" debate thread.
This sale was for those of us who don't have large amounts of income to devote to a rifle system that realistically will never see anywhere except the trunk, the safe and the range.
In that regards, it's a success. Judging by the responses to the 3+ threads devoted to it, Marstar has created many new AR owners, which is always a good thing.
Remember that when they come for the AR's. Quantity will be everything and not everyone's got $1000+ to spend to register a dog in the race.
This sale was for those of us who don't have large amounts of income to devote to a rifle system that realistically will never see anywhere except the trunk, the safe and the range.
In that regards, it's a success. Judging by the responses to the 3+ threads devoted to it, Marstar has created many new AR owners, which is always a good thing.
Remember that when they come for the AR's. Quantity will be everything and not everyone's got $1000+ to spend to register a dog in the race.
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cereal killer
Regular
- Location
- Quebeckistan
flyrrad
Regular
- Location
- Frigid North, just south of Santa.
Thanks for getting it back on track..... you are 100% correct.
BPM
CGN Regular
- Location
- Calgary AB
You are correct, generally you get what you pay for. That said, I am trained on the duty use of a C8 rifle, and must requalify on it to maintain active service, and we do not have optics, and must shoot in the 9 ring at 100m to maintain proficiency. I can do this with the Colt Canada C8, and I can do this with my Norinco (DA556 from another sponsor but basically ther same). Is the Norinco equal to the Colt, no, however, it's a quarter the price. Annnnnd, it's funny, but that god damn thing shoots every bit as well at 100m using the same ammo. So half of me is shocked, and the other half is proud, that a gun so inexpensive is surprizingly well built (I've stripped both, the Commy gun is no slouch and not full of rough aluminum filings and lubed with the tears of chinese babies) and has had zero ftf or any stoppage whatsoever, when I've had 5 that I can recall in the past year alone with the C8, and I hardly ever get range time on that.
Just my thoughts on the topic of Norinco bashing as a whole, and to play the Devils Advocate, as it gets pretty tiring hearing people consistantly bash the Norincos because quite frankly, most of the time (generalizing here) they are butthurt their $1k, $2k, $3k+ 'Merica Built AR System is being threatened by "another kid and his Cheapo Norinco", and all of a sudden what used to be some superficial, arrogant "elitist" club is now in the affordability of your average shooter. Trust me, I know, I was there once. Then I grew up and realized that the more people that shoot, the better off this sport is in regards to our country and it's draconian laws.
Uhh I think there is a difference between bashing and being realistic. US made AR15's start at $750 these days, not exactly out of reach for most people, and don't forget the Nork M4's are currently on sale at $529, but usually retail for $699. Out of all the reviews and praises, not a single person addressed the quality of the materials, which leads me to beleive they can't spot a cast part vs a forged part vs a MIM part. If you don't care that's fine too, but at least TRY and understand what the difference is, and WHY these are $529.
There is nothing wrong with buying or owning a $529 AR15, but don't pretend it is the equivalent, or that it will last as long as one that is much better made out of forged 7075 aluminium, with a carpenter 158 steel bolt/carrier, and properly heat treated small parts for $750.
flyrrad
Regular
- Location
- Frigid North, just south of Santa.
I have named my Norinco "Helga"..... Helga may not be pretty, but she's reliable. Last night, it was very cold so Helga and I spooned..... we're both happy and now I can afford to feed her a steady diet of cheap ammo. She's a dirty girl, I like dirty girls.
- Location
- The Big Land
... Last night, it was very cold so Helga and I spooned..... we're both happy and now....
This can't possibly end well.....
- Location
- The Big Land
I have often discussed this with newbies.. if you can't afford better that's fine. Knowing what you get at that price point is good to know in the sense of being aware that things may not be to spec per se and not everything may fit as intended (like some brand name accessories etc).
However.. if buying a cheaply priced AR gets you into the black rifle game then that is certainly better than not getting into it at all.
However.. if buying a cheaply priced AR gets you into the black rifle game then that is certainly better than not getting into it at all.
I bought one from another store, and personally didn't expect too much from it. As it is restricted I bought it more for the mechanics of the toy, than the shooting of it since I can't take it outside where it is fun to shoot rather than dark indoor ranges (Feel like a bunch of trolls hiding under bridges when I go to ranges). Anyways took her out (to range) , and shot her and was very happy with her. Although I joined the " AR style gun club", I don't really see myself how the other guys I've seen at the range consider themselves. I've seen 4 owners and they all had 2 things in common;
1. they had no Idea how to shoot (I'm not a great shot but these guys were all over at 20 meters)
2. They get all dressed up or dress their AR's up with more bells and whistles than gun.
Youtube, hollywood and gaming education leads to the hunched gorilla pose "double tapping" their way across the target. If at 20 meters with red dots or optical sights you cant keep your "groups" smaller than a dinner plate, pick up an old .22 and go plinking for a few years. Maybe it will teach you how to shoot. Then get tacticool.
If you need an optical sight on your ar to shoot then whether you buy a 600$ one or a 3000$ one It makes no difference they will both out shoot you, might as well buy the cheaper one so that you have something to blame for your groups.
There are very few people out there that own the high end ones because they need it, it is more of a status thing.
1. they had no Idea how to shoot (I'm not a great shot but these guys were all over at 20 meters)
2. They get all dressed up or dress their AR's up with more bells and whistles than gun.
Youtube, hollywood and gaming education leads to the hunched gorilla pose "double tapping" their way across the target. If at 20 meters with red dots or optical sights you cant keep your "groups" smaller than a dinner plate, pick up an old .22 and go plinking for a few years. Maybe it will teach you how to shoot. Then get tacticool.
If you need an optical sight on your ar to shoot then whether you buy a 600$ one or a 3000$ one It makes no difference they will both out shoot you, might as well buy the cheaper one so that you have something to blame for your groups.
There are very few people out there that own the high end ones because they need it, it is more of a status thing.
