Thanks

I honestly know next to nothing about older Winchesters, but from what you wrote, I'd agree that some serious target shooter modified a stock rifle into a customized personal shooter. As to ammunition, given where you live, you can try Epps and see if they have any ammo for it, post a request in the EE, or hit the next Orangeville gun show (March 23rd.) VERY nice score, BTW!
 
Very nice gun. Based on the outside condition, I would believe the bore is in decent condition. I definitely would not shoot jacketed ammo in the old girl. Smokeless and cast bullets are the way to go. Decent 1885's are very hard to find here and in the USA. Definitely a keeper.
 
Wow that is really beautiful. You can shoot modern ammo (if is the rifle is rated for smokeless) but those early 38-55 were all generally all .380 groove dia. Most modern 38-55 rounds are loaded with .375 dia. slug so your accuracy will not be very good at all. After your barrel is cleaned and slugged you need to likely cast or purchase a cast bullet about .001 over the groove dia. I shoot, mold and hand load this caliber a lot. If you are ever find your way up in the North Bay area with that rifle we can head off to the local range and I will help you get it shooting with a nice light cast load. Congrats really nice score.
 
WOW! My grandfather used to shoot target competition with the same style of rifle. Swore it was the best shooting gun ever made. Tell you what, i will take it off your hands for 4 times what you paid for it! (oh, I HOPE he can't do math......) no? OH well. LOL

Even if the bore doesn't clean up, you could have it rebored to a 40 or 45 caliber..lots of period correct options. But i hope it does clean up, as she's purty as she is, and i'd wonder about her past every time i shot her...link across the generations there! And 38-55 is mild enough that the butt plate is not going to kill you.

Please post pics as you clean her up and get her shooting!
 
The old schuetzen rifles were very accurate indeed. The .38-55 was an excellent black powder target cartridge, and when loaded properly, in the hands of a good marksman was capable of much better accuracy that most shooters of modern firearms would expect. In order to get the most accuracy out of the old single shots, most used breech seated ammunition using a single case loaded at the shooting bench, with BP or duplex. Most do not have the patience for this style of shooting these days. With straight BP I generally can't get off more than seven shots or so in 30 minutes :). But with a well fitting bullet the accuracy will astound you.

Chris.
 
Nice rifle. In my opinion, the tang sight is made by Winchester, the front sight is not. A factory letter will tell if the rifle was shipped with a tang sight.

Regards,
Powderman
 
Cocked&Locked said:
WOW! My grandfather used to shoot target competition with the same style of rifle. Swore it was the best shooting gun ever made. Tell you what, i will take it off your hands for 4 times what you paid for it! (oh, I HOPE he can't do math......) no? OH well. LOL

Even if the bore doesn't clean up, you could have it rebored to a 40 or 45 caliber..lots of period correct options. But i hope it does clean up, as she's purty as she is, and i'd wonder about her past every time i shot her...link across the generations there! And 38-55 is mild enough that the butt plate is not going to kill you.

Please post pics as you clean her up and get her shooting!
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4X free = free free free free. I don't like the sound of that LOL.

Now, I have cleaned my fare share of barrels, but not to the extent of one like this. What would you all suggest to clean the bore with?

As for the rest, I plan on stripping the rifle to clean it.
 
powderman said:
Nice rifle. In my opinion, the tang sight is made by Winchester, the front sight is not. A factory letter will tell if the rifle was shipped with a tang sight.

Regards,
Powderman
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I will try to take a couple pictures of the tang sight and post them later today or tomorrow. There are some numbered markings on the left side of the sight for elevation. I will also take a better picture of the front sight.
 
Yeah, if you are at all interested in the 1885 rifles, the Campbell books are very much worth finding at least to read. I bought mine through Track of the Wolf, IIRC. Expensive, but very worth it.

Should have a barrel number stamped under the barrel in front of th ebony insert in the fore end. This number relates to the breech and muzzle dimensions, and those dimensions remain more or less constant even when a custom length barrel was ordered.

Special order features for the 1885 are really common, per Campbell, as the Winchester Company was pretty well set and willing to do the little differences for their customers.

I'm another drooler over this one....:)

Oh yeah. John Browning gets the credit, but all he really did in relation to this, was patent an action that was not able to be easily bypassed. William Mason did the lions share of making the 1885 Winchester into a rifle that could be produced at Winchester. The Browning patents are easily found and other than the basic similarity in the style of the action, it is quite different, and far simpler, than the Winchester.

Cheers
Trev
 
Muskyhunter1 said:
...You can shoot modern ammo (if is the rifle is rated for smokeless) but those early 38-55 were all generally all .380 groove dia. Most modern 38-55 rounds are loaded with .375 dia. slug so your accuracy will not be very good at all.......
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that it's the other way around from what Muskyhunter says in his post.

.38-55 went through a shift in size during it's life. The two single shot guns I've got in this caliber were slugged and found to want a .376 to .377 cast bullet to fit the groove diameter correctly.

At some later point in history when the .38-55 came out in lever guns the bore and groove diameter grew to where these guns wanted a .379 to .380 size bullet.

There's also two different lengths of .38-55 brass to choose from. The original longer style and a slightly later shorter version. And with your 1885 being an original and not a later reproduction there is a good chance that you will need the longer original style casings.

So all in all you might be able to try some modern factory ammo. But I suspect you'll need to make the jump and get yourself into reloading if you expect to see the best accuracy out of this fine looking rifle.

Two things that you will likely need to do or have done is to slug the bore and cast the chamber.

Slugging the bore is easy enough. Take a soft lead round ball from a muzzle loader and pound it into the barrel at the muzzle with a plastic mallet. Once it's mostly in use a 3/8 dowel to punch the slug down and out at the chamber. Now you can measure the bore and groove diameters and get a better idea of the bullet diameter you need.

Casting the chamber is a bit harder. You want some sort of low temperature metal like Cerrosafe or to plug and fill with a casting product like possibly plaster of paris or Ultracal casting mix to make a plug of the chamber and the first 1/2 inch of the rifling. The resulting plug will allow you to get an idea of if you need the long or short version of the cases.

I know this sounds bad. And it is thanks to the changes that .38-55 went through over the course of this cartridge's life time. But if you take this on and accept the work needed you'll have a great shooting rifle in a cartridge that doesn't beat you up.

.45-70 is a hugely popular cartridge for most classic target shooters. But I'm not alone in finding that .45-70 tends to beat up a person if more than 10 to 15 rounds are going to be shot in a day. On the other hand .38-55 is softer enough that I can shoot a whole box of 100 if needed and still smile at the end of the day. So while it's more work to get to where you need to be to get the best out of your old rifle my opinion is that it's well worth the work and cost to get set up for reloading even if it's only on a small scale.
 
Oh. You can form 38-55 (or at least, a usable facsimile) from blown out 30-30 Winchester Brass. IIRC, it comes out a little short, but it'll do in a pinch.

I know you said no reloading, but like it or not, you are probably headed that way. :)

Otherwise, it's still good info to know!

Cheers
Trev
 
Yep, sadly to get the best out of this one you're looking at reloading.

The good news is that if you're someone that is used to using a scope as a sighting "crutch" that once you get the hang of using the match peep sights you'll be shocked at how good a gun it is and how good you can be.

I've only shot a little and still need to do more work on load development but even my first efforts with a poor blob of red paint at 300 yards was getting me 10 to 12inch groups from my rolling block with the same sort of sights you've got. And I'm talking really POOR target contrast. I was literally looking for a slight pink cast due to the poor light as an indicator that I was on the target.

I know that our trail through the shooting sports world is a very individual one. But I'll take a nice old single shot match rifle like yours over any tarted up AR style black rifle 8 days out of the week! ! ! !

These guns don't need to be slow either. You can rattle off roughly 8 well aimed shots a minute if you work up the support gear around you and the rifle with the right stuff.

If you let this opportunity slip by just because you don't want to get into reloading you deserve a serious slap upside the head. You got a truly superb rifle that is well set up handed to you on a platter. If it's not your thing that's fine. See it off to a more appreciative home. But if you feel like you like handling and shooting it but you let the idea of reloading act as the wedge to separate this rifle from you then shame on you.

Let those first few factory rounds speak to you. If the message isn't to your liking then at least you tried. But if you are grinning at the style of shooting and rifle handling then dive on in. A minimal setup just for this rifle doesn't need to take up a lot of money, time or space to be effective.
 
^Yes. I echo similar sentiments. My adventures in the black powder world of firearms has evolved considerably; reproduction blunderbuss, hawken copy, Ruger Old Army, BPCR, and now Damascus barrel hammer smoothbores.

Seems to swallow whole my firearms interest presently. (other then target pistols, that is)
I am also a frequent customer now for, Track of the Wolf, Dixie Gunworks and The Possibles Shop, for associated goodies.
And within Canada alone, Will Bilozir for various shotgun wads and Becky at Hill Folk for powder, ball and caps.
Now it's freaking bowie knives with a frontier look about them.....lol
 
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Given this last reply you'll take to the Winchester like a duck to water. Just take your time and learn what size brass and bullets she needs and work at collecting the stuff. Also don't buy your reloading dies until you know if it's the small or larger bore. It's a bit more work to get them but there are two sizes of dies out there for the early smaller size with longer casings and the later "bobbed" casings and larger bullet.
 
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