thanks

[Sassybee]

Anyone else other than me responding on a Chinese phone or PC or Chinese modem. You cannot help not be part of the Chinese product problem. Love US rangefinders made in China as well. I challenge anyone to walk around your house and list everything not made in China, that will actually let one truly understand what is not Chinese made.... I stopped trying to fool myself about this years ago....

I will keep posting this until you and others get it.

WHERE POSSIBLE I avoid Chinese products.

You're right, it is about impossible to be Chinese free in your life. However, with a little diligence and an adjustment of priorities(that's higher cost quality goods vs lower cost higher volume goods) you can significantly reduce the dependence on Chinese products.

 

[1899]

I will keep posting this until you and others get it.

WHERE POSSIBLE I avoid Chinese products.

You're right, it is about impossible to be Chinese free in your life. However, with a little diligence and an adjustment of priorities(that's higher cost quality goods vs lower cost higher volume goods) you can significantly reduce the dependence on Chinese products.

Not sure why you are having such difficulty conveying your perspective. I also avoid Chinese products whenever I can find alternatives. In many situations it is difficult or impossible - in other situations, like with firearms, it is relatively easy.

 

[Taurkon]

I will keep posting this until you and others get it.

WHERE POSSIBLE I avoid Chinese products.

You're right, it is about impossible to be Chinese free in your life. However, with a little diligence and an adjustment of priorities(that's higher cost quality goods vs lower cost higher volume goods) you can significantly reduce the dependence on Chinese products.

Right there with you!

 

[Canuck44]

To the OP consider a Gen 1 or Gen 2 S&W. You get a full size grip with a barrel length of 4.25". Unlike the Glocks the M&P guns feature a stainless steel slide. Mags are relatively inexpensive and available. I would go used off the EE. Holsters and mag holders can be had both used or new and if you want to tinker the gun is very easy to take down to it's smallest parts. The guns are well made and reliable as are most guns made today. Lastly if you decide handguns are not for you the M&P used sells well if priced right.

Take Care

Bob
ps If you are going with a steel gun on a budget look at the Girsan copies of the Beretta 92F. They are well built and most of the parts are interchangeable with those from Beretta.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Sassybee]

Not sure why you are having such difficulty conveying your perspective. I also avoid Chinese products whenever I can find alternatives. In many situations it is difficult or impossible - in other situations, like with firearms, it is relatively easy.

What many find difficult is the price of goods not made in a sweatshop and of quality. This again is the "I want more sh*t" syndrome so many suffer from. Some things you really can't avoid, either because of lack of options or availability.

 

[edgy]

What many find difficult is the price of goods not made in a sweatshop and of quality. This again is the "I want more sh*t" syndrome so many suffer from. Some things you really can't avoid, either because of lack of options or availability.

What others find difficult is that you can shoot as good a group with a $300 Norc NP22 as you can with a $1200 Sig 226
To each their own, I’ve never owned a hammer fired gun and don’t have enough interest in them to drop that kind of money on a Sig. I can however add that experience to my stable and intro a new shooter to it for $300, for me it has SFA to do with “ I want more sh*t”

 

[mebiuspower]

Anyone else other than me responding on a Chinese phone or PC or Chinese modem. You cannot help not be part of the Chinese product problem. Love US rangefinders made in China as well. I challenge anyone to walk around your house and list everything not made in China, that will actually let one truly understand what is not Chinese made.... I stopped trying to fool myself about this years ago....

That's the problem that I have... if you say you don't buy China goods you should be living in a cave right now otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

 

[1899]

That's the problem that I have... if you say you don't buy China goods you should be living in a cave right now otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

But nobody is saying don’t buy China goods. It’s don’t buy China goods if you can avoid it. Or do your best to not buy China goods. It’s very different than what you are saying.

 

[1899]

What others find difficult is that you can shoot as good a group with a $300 Norc NP22 as you can with a $1200 Sig 226
To each their own, I’ve never owned a hammer fired gun and don’t have enough interest in them to drop that kind of money on a Sig. I can however add that experience to my stable and intro a new shooter to it for $300, for me it has SFA to do with “ I want more sh*t”

There are $500-$600 non-Norc handguns out there, and even under $500 if you look at used. Add taxes to the $300 Norc and the difference between it and a used non-Chinese handgun can be $100 or less. It’s really not that big a difference. There is a cost to buying Chinese - and to me the cost outweighs the monetary savings.

 

[mebiuspower]

But nobody is saying don’t buy China goods. It’s don’t buy China goods if you can avoid it. Or do your best to not buy China goods. It’s very different than what you are saying.

But you can't avoid it, that's the whole point. They do it only if it suits them.

It's the dictionary definition of hypocrisy.

 

[1899]

But you can't avoid it, that's the whole point. They do it only if it suits them.

It's the dictionary definition of hypocrisy.

Yes, you can avoid it SOMETIMES. Clothes, footwear, knives, kitchen cutlery, furniture, firearms, firearms accessories, ammunition, optics, tools, dog food, tires and paint are all items that you can avoid Chinese made with a little effort. That’s all - nobody is saying it is an “all or nothing” proposition.

 

[Canuck44]

What others find difficult is that you can shoot as good a group with a $300 Norc NP22 as you can with a $1200 Sig 226
To each their own, I’ve never owned a hammer fired gun and don’t have enough interest in them to drop that kind of money on a Sig. I can however add that experience to my stable and intro a new shooter to it for $300, for me it has SFA to do with “ I want more sh*t”

This!

You won't find any N.A. made 1911 made with steel as hard as a Norc 1911 period. The Norinco 1911 almost has a cult following in the US. Wilson Combat will customize a Norinco but not a Kimber. For years their website listed Norinco as a pistol they would work on but a Kimber has never been on their list or wasn't the last time I looked at their website - albeit 10 years ago.

Most of the anti-Chinese rhetoric emanates from the US, a country that has been at war with "somebody" ever since 1917. Nobody seems to mind the Chinese tourists that flock to Canada every year to spend their money on Canadian trinkets likely made in China. LOL. Leave the politics out of your life and you will live longer.

Take Care

Bob
ps BTW according to some we are to boycott Turkey because our NATO ally is not in favour by the Left these days. Tsk...Tsk

 

[easyrider604]

Leave the politics out of your life and you will live longer.

Take Care

I would if I could. If Libs and Dems disappeared today, many of us will live longer.

 

[Meroh]

This!

You won't find any N.A. made 1911 made with steel as hard as a Norc 1911 period. The Norinco 1911 almost has a cult following in the US. Wilson Combat will customize a Norinco but not a Kimber. For years their website listed Norinco as a pistol they would work on but a Kimber has never been on their list or wasn't the last time I looked at their website - albeit 10 years ago.

Most of the anti-Chinese rhetoric emanates from the US, a country that has been at war with "somebody" ever since 1917. Nobody seems to mind the Chinese tourists that flock to Canada every year to spend their money on Canadian trinkets likely made in China. LOL. Leave the politics out of your life and you will live longer.

Take Care

Bob
ps BTW according to some we are to boycott Turkey because our NATO ally is not in favour by the Left these days. Tsk...Tsk

I agree with you 100%!!

Which brings me to the final answer regarding a "budget" 9mm. The NZ85B Nork clone of the CZ has been unavailable for at least two years; Marstar now has them in stock for $339.00. I bought mine about 4 years ago and paid the going rate of $399.00, and I am still convinced I bought not only the right pistol for me, but my life-time keeper 9mm. I have shot a few CZs, and love them; but they NZ has just as nice a single and double action trigger as they do, and I shoot equally well with both the real thing and the Nork. The worst part about the Nork was the hard plastic grips, but it is easy to pick up a set of CZ stock overmolded take off grips, and they fit right on. Fit and finish on mine is amazing as well; mine has a blued frame and satin chrome slide. Theirs are all blued. Mine has thousands of rounds through it and no issues; running 4 nork mags as well, and they work great too!!

Most who have these feel just the same as I do I think, because you hardly ever see them on the EE here or elsewhere.

 

[thatmikeguy]

Ive owned both the NP22 and the NZ85. They're great. I sold them both to my dad and he loves them. My wife owns an NP22 and she also loves it. I've tried other more expensive options and now I'm going back to a Norinco. I can spend much less and have the same fun.
And for me, spending less makes it more fun.

 

[RK99]

I would if I could. If Libs and Dems disappeared today, many of us will live longer.

You would likely not have free or inexpensive healthcare so many would not live longer.

 

[5.45]

. The worst part about the Nork was the hard plastic grips, but it is easy to pick up a set of CZ stock overmolded take off grips, and they fit right on. Fit and finish on mine is amazing as well; mine has a blued frame and satin chrome slide. Theirs are all blued. Mine has thousands of rounds through it and no issues; running 4 nork mags as well, and they work great too!!

Most who have these feel just the same as I do I think, because you hardly ever see them on the EE here or elsewhere.

Out of curiosity, what is the total mileage on your NZ? My concern would be that they use roll pins almost everywhere. CZ pistols use solid pins in the hammer assembly and firing pin stop. I heard NZ will chew through the firing pin stop after about 5-6 k cycles, which is not a lot if you dry fire practice.

 

[Canuck44]

Out of curiosity, what is the total mileage on your NZ? My concern would be that they use roll pins almost everywhere. CZ pistols use solid pins in the hammer assembly and firing pin stop. I heard NZ will chew through the firing pin stop after about 5-6 k cycles, which is not a lot if you dry fire practice.

Who would you hear that from? I have seen slide stops break on a CZ 85 Combat after a zillion rounds (had one). I also know one of our IDPA shooters who had the slide stop break on her NZ 22, THE SIG 226 copy. She replaced it with a Sig 226 part if I remember correctly. I would be surprised if there are many folks with NZ75 or 85's that have 6,000 dry fires or actual rounds through their guns frankly. If a firing pin broke you would replace it if it is a roll pin and move on.

Take Care

Bob

 

[5.45]

Who would you hear that from? I have seen slide stops break on a CZ 85 Combat after a zillion rounds (had one). I also know one of our IDPA shooters who had the slide stop break on her NZ 22, THE SIG 226 copy. She replaced it with a Sig 226 part if I remember correctly. I would be surprised if there are many folks with NZ75 or 85's that have 6,000 dry fires or actual rounds through their guns frankly. If a firing pin broke you would replace it if it is a roll pin and move on.

Take Care

Bob

This was from a dude who supplies Norinco products to the Russian market. He said, these cross pins don’t last very long, but they are cheap and he always keeps some spares in stock for his clients.
Not sure of his sample size. Those are cheap consumables , not an issue IF the importer can bring parts.

I recently acquired a NZ frame to see if it can be mated with a .22 Kadet upper just for the sake of experimentation. Was somewhat surprised to find roll pins in the hammer, instead of staked solid pins used by CZ.

 

[Sassybee]

What others find difficult is that you can shoot as good a group with a $300 Norc NP22 as you can with a $1200 Sig 226
To each their own, I’ve never owned a hammer fired gun and don’t have enough interest in them to drop that kind of money on a Sig. I can however add that experience to my stable and intro a new shooter to it for $300, for me it has SFA to do with “ I want more sh*t”

I never said a Norc wouldn't shoot. I'm stating they don't last, often have difficulty in fitting parts and are made in CHINA.

But you can't avoid it, that's the whole point. They do it only if it suits them.

It's the dictionary definition of hypocrisy.

Yes, you can avoid it. Please enlighten us as to which Glock, Smith and Wesson, HK, Steyr, Ruger, Kimber, CZ, Colt, etc is made in China? Should I list optics and accessories?

It's about avoiding Chinese products, not ELIMINATING Chinese products. Thanks to cheap consumers and greedy businesses, production of most goods has been pushed offshore. Making it near impossible to eliminate them from your everyday life.

You would likely not have free or inexpensive healthcare so many would not live longer.

Healthcare is NOT free. Over half of your income taxes go to healthcare, either directly or indirectly. We are grossly over paying for the mediocre service we get.