The 1 MOA Hoax: How manufacturers have confused shooters

Most hunters can't shoot worth sh*t.

It also doesn't help that hunting rifles aren't designed to be precision rifles. They are light. They are in harder recoiling cartridges. Usually no muzzle brake. Heavy triggers. Ergonomics that aren't conducive to precision shooting.

And hunters are typically not great shots.

Recoil will exploit flaws in your fundamentals (which vast majority of hunters have plenty of). A light hunting rifle, in a heavier recoiling cartridge, with no muzzle brake is a recipe for disaster, especially when paired with the typical hunters shooting skill.

I'm not surprised that he couldn't find anyone to shoot a hunting rifle better than 1 MOA over a 5 shot group. Even if a rifle is capable of that precision, most hunters aren't.
 
blakeyboy said:
fair point, I keep forgetting the 5 shots and factory...and average shooters/hunters who go off the shelf gear, I only do that in comparisons from the initial set up to choose the ammo and already chosen rifles based on user reports of 5 shot accuracy sub-moa not manufacturer marketing stuff, it's been achievable likely all of 15 years and more to find factory rigs that could do sub moa 5 shots with factory ammo but had to choose carefully both the rifles and the ammo, I don't think I actually checked 5 rounds with my ruger grendel, when the first two out of it on paper at 200 and two clean breaks and you only see one hole through spotter you worry dud, wrong ammo etc. until you walk up and see them almost touching, good start, so I shoot 3 into 3/4 average all the time with it and don't actually know it's 5 shot potential but I wouldn't bet against it being over 1 moa, that's why I would have loved to take that challenge, most guys and rifles you're right, likely don't take things that far and maybe would be higher than buddies 1.8"? less guys like me who prefer to find as close to custom/reloading as I can with off the shelf...like to think his $50 bucks would have been in some danger of becoming mine, next time I'm out I'll run simulate prone on bipod to see, won't be till fall and may just hunt so will see, will try to post back here if I do, sounds like a perfectly fun challenge, I don't sleep well at night if I don't have at least one rig in the safe ready to go at all times that is comfortably moa or less in my hands majority of time for 3 and zero'd, checked cold multiple times etc...I build any new rigs first to achieve that before I let the last one go down the road
Click to expand...

Does sound pretty fun alright!

I'll give it a go with whatever my hunting rifle ends up being this year. All I have with glass on it right now is a Tikka T3x SS in 223 and I kinda feel like thats cheating lol.
 
Jon87 said:
I find that guy hard to watch as well. Gavin from ultimate reloader is another I find hard to watch. Not that he has bad content or anything, he's just so mind numbingly boring to listen to.
Click to expand...

Gavin is annoying because he's essentially a salesperson for whatever product he's "reviewing".

Will talk straight out of a product brochure, and won't ever say a bad thing about a product. Apparently companies pay him good money to "review" their products.
 
PSE said:
I got twisted around for quite a while when I first got into guns years ago. I couldn't understand why folks I met at the range were getting these stunning groups with their fairly average rifles while I was struggling to do so. A more senior shooter then told me to ask about the details.
1. How many shots fired
2. Did they discount flyers
3. Were they sure of the distance shot
4. Were these groups part of a larger group
5. Did they use a ruler to measure or just estimate group size
6. Did they even know how to measure group size

7. And the big one - Were they able to replicate this feat on a continuous basis or was it only once achieved.

It took awhile before I realized that shot groups are the modern equivalent of fish stories. Certainly a lot of embellishment without much pertinent details. Now I just laugh.
Click to expand...

paging caramel to the white courtesy phone
 
PSE said:
I got twisted around for quite a while when I first got into guns years ago. I couldn't understand why folks I met at the range were getting these stunning groups with their fairly average rifles while I was struggling to do so. A more senior shooter then told me to ask about the details.
1. How many shots fired
2. Did they discount flyers
3. Were they sure of the distance shot
4. Were these groups part of a larger group
5. Did they use a ruler to measure or just estimate group size
6. Did they even know how to measure group size

7. And the big one - Were they able to replicate this feat on a continuous basis or was it only once achieved.

It took awhile before I realized that shot groups are the modern equivalent of fish stories. Certainly a lot of embellishment without much pertinent details. Now I just laugh.
Click to expand...

Good shooters can definitely shoot small groups with the right rifle and equipment and technique.

I can regularly shoot tiny 5 shoot groups with my 20lb 6BRA rifle.

But my .30's are much harder to drive properly, as the recoil exploits any flaws. I'm not a perfect shooter, and can't shoot them near as consistently as my 6BRA. Shot some small groups the other day with my .308, but it took much more effort and focus to do so.
 
Personally I don't mind the guy. Don't really see that he does crazy Darwin award stuff, acts like a normal person.

Years ago, Weatherby had ....maybe has....such a guarantee. Had to use Weatherby branded ammo, which is $120/box+. Personally, most.of the time it's the Indian not the arrow. Then there's the inability to carry that 500lb concrete shooting bench out into the field. I've missed some embarrassing close shots at game, made some shots I probably shouldn't have tried. Shooting a target cartridge, into small groups a5 the range is not the same as shooting at a game animal.
 
medvedqc said:
please post yours fabulous groups guys ... factory ammo hunting rifle 5 shots ....
Click to expand...

long ago before I got booted off AO for trying to save people over the jab I used to post all my builds, all the group shoots etc., there may be guys running around here that will remember, nothing to prove and not trying to show off here, if I remember and get a chance this fall I'll see what my little ruger can do as I haven't actually tried it for 5, everything I have done with it was more than enough to tell me I had everything I had hoped for and expected in very little time, when you do this enough its apparent right away but I will try to appease the critics and it really does sound like a fun challenge, I've done all my prep late ice fishing season and early spring, things are staying put until hunting season, as its still fishing season...until then, I accept your skepticism and in this day and age of the interweb it's warranted
 
kthomas said:
Gavin is annoying because he's essentially a salesperson for whatever product he's "reviewing".

Will talk straight out of a product brochure, and won't ever say a bad thing about a product. Apparently companies pay him good money to "review" their products.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of guntubers that do that, there's an entire mini-industry around "talent management" for guntubers for hire.

For example: https://www.leviathangroupllc.com/tribe
 
blakeyboy said:
long ago before I got booted off AO for trying to save people over the jab I used to post all my builds, all the group shoots etc., there may be guys running around here that will remember, nothing to prove and not trying to show off here, if I remember and get a chance this fall I'll see what my little ruger can do as I haven't actually tried it for 5, everything I have done with it was more than enough to tell me I had everything I had hoped for and expected in very little time, when you do this enough its apparent right away but I will try to appease the critics and it really does sound like a fun challenge, I've done all my prep late ice fishing season and early spring, things are staying put until hunting season, as its still fishing season...until then, I accept your skepticism and in this day and age of the interweb it's warranted
Click to expand...

Same. I'll be happy to try too.

I can do without the weird "you say you're better than everyone else" stuff apropos of nothing, but I'd like to see what my rifle can do. If it isn't MOA it isn't MOA, and part of being a big boy is facing reality haha. Won't matter much for 300 yard max hunting.
 
Well, I can't even try to see. The only factory stock rifle that I have is a 44 mag lever, and well, that isn't meant to be 1 moa.

The other rifles, well, no problems there getting 1 moa or better, but they aren't even close to factory and I don't shoot factory rounds anymore.

That said, I did have a fierce carbon edge for a few years, and it was a 1/2 moa rifle, once I found the ammo it liked, and it would shoot those small groups often.

I love reading the moa guarantees on some of these new rifles hitting the scene lately. Get a chuckle out of it at how vague they are.
 
Lol. I can shoot a 1 MOA group. Need handloads though through a fouled barrel (and the cold bore shot doesn't count). Anyway, who needs 1 MOA to kill a deer or moose or elk or whatever? It's just nice to know that the manufacturer takes quality and consistency seriously - the 1MOA guarantee isn't about hunting, and it never has been. It's about quality barrel craftsmanship. Maybe varmint hunters shooting off a rest can shoot like that in the field, but the rest of us are walking in the woods or freezing our a$$es off in a stand. No way you're shooting a 1" group off the shoulder in hunting conditions.

The idiot in the video is missing the point.
 
Last edited:
Hey I’ll give it whirl.
I’ve got three rifles I know are capable.
Not sure if I am but why not?
Do I get extra points if I do it with a 338?
 
Just go to UnderTheGuns threads in the precision forum.

I have some hunting rifles that I have shot sub MOA, relatively consistently.... but normally just break out the precision rifles for precision shooting.
 
Off to he top of my head I can think of two factory rifles I’ve owned that were truly accurate. Both were Remington 700’s. One was a CDL 243, the other a VS in 22-250.
 
My Sako A7 7 rem mag is the only lightweight rifle I have that will consistently put 5 under an inch with factory hunting ammo (162gr PH).
In front of a crowd I'm not 100% sure I could pull that challenge off.
 
I see a lot of 4" groups at 100 yards when people are sighting in their hunting rifles before season opener.

Good enough for most hunting scenarios most likely?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom