The 1 MOA Hoax: How manufacturers have confused shooters
- Thread starter Gatehouse
- Start date
Totally understand, when I was competing and shooting heavily , I went thruogh 40 or more pounds of powder per year, that ship sailed long ago! LOL
I still shoot lots, but the .223's get most of the work now.....
Cat
Moving to the 223 "training rifle" here too...can make the dollars stretch a bit using cheaper bullets and powders where needed and setting aside some good loads for sure.
Will def. be using 10 shot groups to measure the true capability of the rifle though lol.
pete dobinson
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Courtenay BC.
This is what I do with my Kimber Mountain Ascent 270, 3 shot groups so not to overheat the barrel. I don't need 5 shot groups with a hunting rifle. If you cant do it with 3 shots, 5 won't help.
Here is a thought... mosey over to the rimfire forum and checkout the "1/2" at 50 yard challenge" thread... it is a scaled down concept of what is being discussed here... the terms call for Five 5-shot groups on a single page... scan through the thousands of posts and see how many attempts were foiled by one or two shots of the 25 rounds... the idea is to test the accuracy of the rifle AND the shooter, and most likely the ammo. If you look at the first page which lists the successful attempts you will see a much higher standard of average rifle quality (value/cost), which would seem to suggest that better rifles are more accurate, which was born out by their ability to consistently (5X5 consecutive groups), maintain accuracy. If you are just sighting in a scope or load, sure three shot groups are plenty, you really don't even need that... but if you want to refine your POI or groupings then it should be obvious that larger groups provide more information on consistent accuracy. Having said that, not everyone enjoys burning powder, and everyone has their own standard for what is "good enough."
At least with a sandbagged or rested 22 we can be way more certain the "flyers" aren't flinches.
Completely agreed though. If the objective is to really see what rifle and load can do, keep changing targets for 3 or 5 round groups but keep the same cardboard backer for all of them.
When you see the one big group at the end, there's your probability circle. And are those "flyers" still alone and so anomalous? lol.
Completely agreed though. If the objective is to really see what rifle and load can do, keep changing targets for 3 or 5 round groups but keep the same cardboard backer for all of them.
When you see the one big group at the end, there's your probability circle. And are those "flyers" still alone and so anomalous? lol.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
Hell ya for Kentucky Ballistics. Fun stuff Scott puts out. On my end over the years, I use 3 & 5 shot groups to dial in my hunting guns and always from a cold barrel, though I'd sometimes do a cold to hot barrel comparo on 'em to check dispersion in shot placement of the groups. I've mostly used my hunting rifles as single shots and at ranges inside 100 yds on meat critters.
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USOG is the king of gun YouTube
I understand the search for perfection. But I'd rather zero my rifle, shoot 2 3 shot groups at .5 grain increments and then shoot steel from field positions or my prs rest/barricade thing.
I'd hate to fuel the, uh, scholarly debate, but I'd rather shoot two 3 round groups than one 5 during load development.
Just more fun.
Obsessing over group size and mechanical accuracy ruins that for me. Shooting between 50 and 200 yards and running "drills" of my own divising with a rifle I know shoots to POA within it mpbr suits me and my needs as a hunter better.
My biggest gripe with the range here (besides it being a massive wind tunnel) is that offhand shooting is not allowed. I've taken to shooting from sitting without resting my elbows and shooting my 22 at 100 yards from the bags.
Can't wait to be somewhere I can set up my.woodland target deer in the bush again.
If you feel your hunting rifle and needs as a hunter are better met by shooting 10 round groups font inspire me to debate. I prefer to burn my money on other forms of shooting. I understand the fun and challenge of load testing etc but taking it to that extreme ruins the fun for me
RIP Badgermaster
I understand the search for perfection. But I'd rather zero my rifle, shoot 2 3 shot groups at .5 grain increments and then shoot steel from field positions or my prs rest/barricade thing.
I'd hate to fuel the, uh, scholarly debate, but I'd rather shoot two 3 round groups than one 5 during load development.
Just more fun.
Obsessing over group size and mechanical accuracy ruins that for me. Shooting between 50 and 200 yards and running "drills" of my own divising with a rifle I know shoots to POA within it mpbr suits me and my needs as a hunter better.
My biggest gripe with the range here (besides it being a massive wind tunnel) is that offhand shooting is not allowed. I've taken to shooting from sitting without resting my elbows and shooting my 22 at 100 yards from the bags.
Can't wait to be somewhere I can set up my.woodland target deer in the bush again.
If you feel your hunting rifle and needs as a hunter are better met by shooting 10 round groups font inspire me to debate. I prefer to burn my money on other forms of shooting. I understand the fun and challenge of load testing etc but taking it to that extreme ruins the fun for me
RIP Badgermaster
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Almost certainly not. Course this as "it shows its good enough for the hunting I do though" can both be true. Think people may confuse/conflate these two very different objectives.
Verily lol
One thing that no one wants to admit, but a 3x3 rd group give you essentially the same info as a 10shot group, if you were to overlay the 3 and align the images off the POA.
5x5 is all I care about for rimfire, and 1x3 for hunting rifles. Amazing how divisive this topic can be.
5x5 is all I care about for rimfire, and 1x3 for hunting rifles. Amazing how divisive this topic can be.
I do this all the time. You can also overlay cold bore to warm shots etc.
Oh, the ten shot die-hard people will never accept that, laying three shot groups over each other; they must be consecutive numbers, or it does not count. Otherwise, it will be an unproven rifle for hunting, which will lach integrity and accuracy between the 4th and 10th shot, at a 120 pound doe.
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We shoot either 10 or 15 round relays (depending on the match)for score . Those shots however oftem get adjusted throught the relay.
What people seem to forget is that as humans, it is very difficult to keep the mental attention needed to replicate a series of shots. The video is more about the shooter than the rifle, but most shooters do not want to admit that.
They think that as soon as the gun goes onto the bags the human variable is mitigated- which it is not !
Cat
Pretty sure its already been mentioned in the thread a few times that theres validity in this approach.
What is missing is any mention at all that a 10 round group is necessary to make sure you'll hit deer lol. Must have glossed over that part! Lol
People lie to themselves, even without knowing it at times lol.
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