The 223 with lightweights and small scopes

Elk Scapula, credit to rokslide. Doesn't look like it would stop a 223. Guys put arrows through scapula and kill.


2elk.jpg


1elk.jpg


https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/

Honestly it's an interesting read if you have time.
 
blakeyboy said:
And the problem in Alberta, for hunters anyway, is those are too heavy for cal and high sd for the fur saving varmints, unless fur doesn’t matter and strictly pest control, also great for long range shooting but while big game formula is there too we can’t utilize that versatility so makes sense to jump up to a diameter that will allow that versatility. Or stick with the original as designed light bullet original formula for trajectory/fur/low ricochet and targets.
Click to expand...

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are saying, but do you mean heavy for caliber bullets like the 88 ELD m is hard on fur bearers up close?
 
blakeyboy said:
Fair, just wanted to get you to tell why you like the .223 personally. That’s all, genuine curiosity, you still haven’t said why you like it? I still wanna know lol. You strike me as a hunt-centric kind of guy so...I just find it odd and I’m curious.

Like pulling teeth trying to get you to talk lol
Click to expand...

I’m busy reloading. And could keep busy for a loooong time loading for the 223 with no additional expenditure

I’m curious why you carry a 6 spark when calling coyotes in bear country. Called in way more Grizzly than blacks.
 
Last edited:
nowarningshot said:
That sounds like a Douglas sort of thing. Guys liked to troll him, he didn't play well in the sandbox. The site took the sandbox away.

Re: remington jim above. I live on a gulf island. Tiny deer, almost always at close range. Literally one of the places in Kanada, that 22 centre fire would shine. How is the 250-3000 Savage fine for deer, but 24 thousands less inadequate. Would I use a 22-250 on a 350lb interior mule deer at 400yds, no chance.

Since the thread is about 223 rem, small bullets, fast twist. The issue is bullet size and construction. The last decade has seen the introduction of super 22 calibers, 22 Valkyrie, 22 nosler, now 22 creedmore. The creedmore being the new pet of the marketing machine known as hornady. They've introduced large for bore deer hunting bullets. The 22 creedmore is pushing light bullets at 22-250 speeds in 1-7.5 or 8 twist, I believe 77 or 80gr hunting bullets at about 3000ft/sec. Some of these new calibers take off others flop. Remains to be seen about the 22 creedmore, but what about .....hmmm 22-250 ai in a 1-8 twist.
Click to expand...

The 22 creedmoor is essentially a 22-250ai. Think the only real difference is shoulder angle by a couple degrees if i remember correctly.
 
Rman said:
Almost nothing seems to cause the vapors, or wads up underwear, as well as a shooting deer with a 222/223 thread.
Again, it would be quite short and more to the point if it were limited to those that have actually done it...

R.
Click to expand...

I have never shot a deer with a 223 but SEVERAL with 22-250 with Horn 53-55 gr bullets and Killed them good N Dead with Lung shots ! And no doubt my 223 would too ! RJ
 
Robmcleod82 said:
The 22 creedmoor is essentially a 22-250ai. Think the only real difference is shoulder angle by a couple degrees if i remember correctly.
Click to expand...

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned type but I really don’t get this latest craze for different and unusual calibers. I’m quite happy with the popular calibers that have been used over the years and can source ammo for them pretty well everywhere. Try that for some of these strange new calibers…

Both the 223 and 22-250 are tried and true calibers and are quite appropriate for the varmint and pest control. I was previously using 22 quiet to keep the noise down but switched to 223 for more accuracy and range.
 
bush1 said:
Maybe I’m just an old fashioned type but I really don’t get this latest craze for different and unusual calibers. I’m quite happy with the popular calibers that have been used over the years and can source ammo for them pretty well everywhere. Try that for some of these strange new calibers…

Both the 223 and 22-250 are tried and true calibers and are quite appropriate for the varmint and pest control. I was previously using 22 quiet to keep the noise down but switched to 223 for more accuracy and range.
Click to expand...

Any of the cartridges that hornady brought out seem to be very well supported (all the creeds, and prcs) you could buy factory 22 creed brass for probably at least 4 or 5 years before it became a sammi cartridge. These modern cartridges are designed around modern heavy bullets and the factory rifles tend to have appropriate twist rates. I dont disagree that a 22-250 is a great cartridge its just that a feel the creed is a better one. In rifle cartridges not much is truly new it seems most things have been done before. I find the twist rates on 22-250 factory barrels are not twisted fast enough to shoot the bullets im interested in.
 
Twist rate has always been an issue and often misunderstood especially in the smaller varmint rifles.
I hear it lots at our range " the 22/250 doesn't have the fast enough twist"
That has to do with the rifle not the cartridge. However.
With the Number of custom barrel smiths and rifle builders around, it would not be difficult to get a rifle and cartridge in a preferable twist.
However if a fella is looking at factory rifles it may be that one cannot find a rifle twisted fact enough in a preferable cartridge:)
Cat
 
iron cat said:
Twist rate has always been an issue and often misunderstood especially in the smaller varmint rifles.
I hear it lots at our range " the 22/250 doesn't have the fast enough twist"
That has to do with the rifle not the cartridge. However.
With the Number of custom barrel smiths and rifle builders around, it would not be difficult to get a rifle and cartridge in a preferable twist.
However if a fella is looking at factory rifles it may be that one cannot find a rifle twisted fact enough in a preferable cartridge:)
Cat
Click to expand...

If you did have a fast twisted 22-250s is the regular short action mag going to be long enough to seat the heavy bullets?
 
pathfinder76 said:
Was out today playing with a fast twist 223 shooting 40gr BT’s at 3650. Speed sure helps with mid range trajectory and small targets. Using a fixed 6X scope with a ballistic reticle shooting 6” targets at 500 yards was easy.

zEKOQLY.jpeg


AVUISvX.jpeg


OhIZbRw.jpeg
Click to expand...

What twist is in that little rifle?
Kinda blows the overstabilization theorists out of the water if those tiny bullets are running 3600+ in a fast twist!
Cat
 
I don’t proclaim to be theorist but I have never found the accuracy of a 40 gr bullet to be as good in a fast twist barrel compared to a slower twist. I’ve tried on a handful of 223’s with fast twists. It just isn’t.
 
If you only want to run 40s a 12 would be the twist rate for that. Ive got a 14 twist 22-250 and i cant get it to shoot 55s but ties 50s and 40s into little knots. I had an ar with a 9 twist and i could run 75 hpbts in it accurately but im sure they were probably marginal for stability. My next 223 barrel is going to be 7.5 or 8 twist it will probably run mostly 75 grain class bullets.
 
Joel said:
If you did have a fast twisted 22-250s is the regular short action mag going to be long enough to seat the heavy bullets?
Click to expand...

The case length on the Creed is actually a bit longer than the 22/250 - 1.920 compared to 1.912 for the 22/250, so the actions would be the same.
There have been some long range 22/250's seen in the early days of Fclass, but they have been pretty much eclipsed bybthe 6mm cartridges when guys are talking F/O. Of course , the .223 is still turning heads with super fast twists and 90-95 grain bullets in F/TR, but I doubt if you would see those in many hunting rifles- they are single shot bolt actions with a sighting system that is not conducive to hunting!
Cat
 
Buckmastr said:
I don’t proclaim to be theorist but I have never found the accuracy of a 40 gr bullet to be as good in a fast twist barrel compared to a slower twist. I’ve tried on a handful of 223’s with fast twists. It just isn’t.
Click to expand...

6" at 500 is just over 1 MOA, and at 3600+ with a 40 grainer, that is pretty impressive.
You are right however, I save my 40 grain bullets for my slow twist deuce, all of my .223's have fast twists ( some of them twist as fast ) and the lightest bullets I shoot in them are 69's and even then I don't shoot them that much anymore.
Cat
 
The best varmint bullet I have used out of a fast twist 223 is a 53gr Vmax. It’s relatively long with a decent boat tail and I push them at 3400 fps or so. They do exit more often though.
A 40vmax at 3800 from a slow twist 223 is superior for me as a 300 yard coyote killer. Frontal shots stiffen the animal right up and it falls over with hardly any bleeding on my pants dragging it back. It’s like it died from electrocution. Clean. It’s like you almost want to pet it.
 
Robmcleod82 said:
If you only want to run 40s a 12 would be the twist rate for that. Ive got a 14 twist 22-250 and i cant get it to shoot 55s but ties 50s and 40s into little knots. I had an ar with a 9 twist and i could run 75 hpbts in it accurately but im sure they were probably marginal for stability. My next 223 barrel is going to be 7.5 or 8 twist it will probably run mostly 75 grain class bullets.
Click to expand...

I will have to check and see what the twist was in the old gun, but I have a log book for the mid 1950's of my father's when he was doing some testing using 53 and 55 grain bullets in a .220 swift.
There are some pretty impressive 5 shot groups in there, and he was running some of them just south of 4,000FPS!
I doubt if that barrel was faster than a 1:12 though, it was a factory model 70 barrel .
The biggest bullet I ever shot well in my 1:14 deuce was a 53 grain TNT, most times I load it with either 50 grain or lighter bullets .
Cat
 
The 223 and 22-250 are great as is, for what they were designed to do. Pushing large for caliber bullets at deer? That would work, here. Not for many places in Kanada. I own two 243, and two 25-06. Probably better choices.

However, if I was buying a new rifle, it would be a 22-250 before the 22 creedmore/Valkyrie/nosler. If I was rebarreling, paying for the gunsmith, 22-250ai in about 8 twist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom