The 257 Roberts

I had one over 25 years ago, when Winchester first introduced their push feed m-70. Had a friend of mine load 3 boxes for me because I was too cheap to buy dies and I didn't plan to use it much because I had a few other larger calibers in more exotic rifles. To make a long story short 100 grain Hornady sp's dropped every deer I ever shot at. I sold the rifle when I finally had it cronied and found that it was less than .250 velocity. That was only one of the many dumb mistakes I ever made. My buddy many years later told me that because he was loading a first load for a unknown rifle had responsibly started at the minimum. My conclusion....the .250 with 100 gr Hornadys must be a heck of a deer load. Regret......one of many that I let go because I thought I could do better.
 
The 257 Roberts is one of those older classic rounds that have really profited from modern guns, powders, and components. Like the 45/70 it can be loaded to much higher velocities in modern firearms. Funny how folks say the 257R is outdated, but in the same breath refer to the 243 as the greatest thing since sliced bread. The debate between a short action and long action is splitting hairs at best.


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I have two; what's this "long action/short action" stuff; must be a Yank thing. Mine are both European and built properly for the cartridges they shoot, the nominal 57 mm. One is a BSA Majestic, which Cat owned for some time until I came back to my senses, and a Husqvarna customized some many years ago by a little known gun tinker named Ellwood.

Both shoot hot damn. I have also owned .257 Wby and 25-06 rifles, but those are gone. the Roberts endure. my other 25 is a 25 WSSM in an a-Bolt that I have to get around to accurizing and shooting in. So many neat rifles, so little time. I am going to have to retire so I can devote more time to the important stuff like shooting and fishing!
 
I am impressed. This is the first chance I have had to read all the posts since it first went up.
For you that own and shoot the Roberts I do hope you enjoy it as I do.
As far as long action vs. short vs. 25-06, 257 Ackley and whatever else you want to compare it to, there are better, faster and more efficient cartridges; we have our own opinions about all of the 25 caliber rounds and 243 as well as 260, 270 and whatever you want. For me it’s not about the speed or not really what fires it (well maybe a bit). It’s all about the cartridge.
My load of 45gr of IMR 4350 behind a Hornady 117gr RN fired from my BLR runs just about 2700 fps and 3 shots measure just over an inch at 100 yds. Plenty good for the area I deer hunt in. That load also obliterates plastic jugs filled with water at 175 yards, and its fun to be able to see them blow up and not be trying to recover from the recoil.
Huntinstuff I hope you find the Winchester that you are looking for and I would like to see BAC4’s Mauser. Supercub, 100gr bullets at 3300fps. Yowzza!
I passed up on a Model 70 Featherweight about 8 years ago before I bought my BLR. I will never let myself forget it. Kilo Charlie, don’t let it slip away unless I have the opportunity before huntinstuff. RickF I have found that throat lengths vary greatly. My BLR short action has a longer throat than my Ruger long action but the BLR magazine limits the OAL to 2.8”. BillyTheKid , it’s about time to take the BLR out and have some fun, it will treat you right if you feed it right. Oldbadger I would like to see the one build by Ellwood.
I am sure there are more Roberts fans out there and some that have not yet come to enjoy such a pleasant shooting cartridge. Sorry I did not include all of you in this reply but I thank you for your response.
Happy shooting and keep posting.
257 Roberts
 
Model 70

I have a model 70 lightweight that I bought off of a fellow gun nut. It is a featherweight with a laminate stock and has been chambered into the ackley 40* version. I bought it for a light mountain rifle or deer rifle but it has been sitting in my safe for about a year and half. Maybe my little boy will use it some day. Or I could trade it if the right item came up....;)
 
1953 M70 win 257 Rbts

I picked up a pre-64 M70 in 257 Rbts. from another gunnut, here, awhile
back. I've shot it some and I like it. The ammo I got for it is all power points and soft points. That's all I could find, buying new stuff. Picked up a set of used RCBS dies, so I'm in business now.
 
Found some of my fathers load data
Norma cases,Winchester Large rifle primers
75 gr bullets 3031 powder(40 gr) = 3100 fps
4895 powder(I believe Hodgson) 41.3 gr = 3100 fps
87 gr bullets 37.3 gr 3031 = 2900fps
39.5 gr 4895 = 2900fps
100 gr bullets 38.5 gr 3031 =2800 fps
39.6 gr 4895 =2900 fps.
I know he didn't have access to a chronograph in his day so I assume these came from a manual or were guesstimates.I have located his dies & brass and intend to start to handload for this cartridge soon.In the meantime I've picked up a box of 117 gr Rem.factory loads and intend to shoot them off just for old times sake.The rifle itself was put together by a gunsmith in Gravenhurst,Ont. by the name of Louis Petsura.The dies are similar to the Lee
Handloader type and were either made by or purchased at Ellwood Epps in the early 1960's and are incorrectly stamped .25 super.
257 Roberts if you want to have a look at the rifle sometime,I live East of T.O. and Lindsay isn't that far away.
 
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.257 Roberts in Model 722 Remington, bought about 45 years ago for $65 and a P14 Enfield. Light recoil, very accurate, has shot 1 moose and about 6 deer. Far better deer gun than a .243 in my opinion because of heavier bullet. I like 42.5 Gr. of Winchester 760 powder with 117 Gr. Bullet. Used to use IMR 4350, but needed a drop tube. 760 loads much nicer being a fine powder. Used to shoot a lot of woodchucks in S.ON, but in N. ON the hunting season is closed in July and August - stupid.
 
Like

Billy The Kid said:
I bought one in a Browning BLR last year but haven't had it out to try it yet:( . I must do that soon........:D
Click to expand...
I am alittle like Billy, here is a Winchester pre 64 (mid-50's) Model 70 Super Grade in
257 Roberts. It has a period scope Lyman All American.
257.jpg

I got it last year and have not fired it yet so I am unsure how it will preform.
Meanea
 
257 Roberts

I have done load testing for the Roberts and 25-06, I found the 06 gets 150-250fps more velocity depending on bullet weight. The 115-120gr the 06 is definately superior. All the tests I did I reached pressure signs by 1/2gr increments and backed off till there was no signs of pressure, same head spacing was used on both.

Both very accurate and great deer cal.
 
Meanea said:
I am alittle like Billy, here is a Winchester pre 64 (mid-50's) Model 70 Super Grade in
257 Roberts. It has a period scope Lyman All American.
257.jpg

I got it last year and have not fired it yet so I am unsure how it will preform.
Meanea
Click to expand...

Nice One. :)
 
Meanea, that is one good looking Model 70 and in 257. I am green with envy.
I can hear it begging to be fired. Time to make it happen.
I have a pre 64 Model 70, 243. They are a fantastic rifle but heavy. Mine is a 1957 Vintage 50 years old this year and wears an old K6 Weaver. The scope does not have caps on the adjusting knobs. Some day I will do some research to find out when it was made.
Thanks for the picture.
257 Roberts
 
I've hung onto John Barsness' "Bob Revisited" article from the Feb 2003 HANDLOADER for years now. This guy is an extremely experienced hunter / shooter / writer who has owned more than a dozen Bobs and he and his wife both use them a lot.
He had a lot to say about both the Ack Imp version and with the "short vs-long action" debate. His conclusions were interesting and well thought out.
John used the Ack Imp for a few years and dropped it. His honest gains were about 100 fps with 115 - 120 grain bullets, above what his regular +P handloads did. This is because of a rule of ballistics which states that for every gain in powder capacity, corresponding velocity is gained, at one-fourth the amount. Since the Ack Imp gains about 12% powder capacity, velocity gain is around 3%, or about 90 fps assuming an average 3000 fps. In his opinion, not worth going to the trouble of fireforming. That's not to say it's not a great cartridge, but the performance gain isn't as great as some folks believe.
Older rifles were often housed in short actions, and the throats were cut long, which can degrade accuracy. In modern rifles, this isn't a concern. Throats are generally cut shorter and the Roberts shoots fine in them. Those very few who think the Roberts gains any real power by loading it to 3 inches instead of 2.8 inches are right. It will gain about 25 to 30 fps, because the .2 inches gives about a 4% gain in powder capacity, or a 1% velocity gain. So action length isn't really a consideration for this cartridge either. Short and long will both work.
As to the .25-06 being a better cartridge or not? (This is my opinion, not John Barsness'). It is a couple hundred fps faster than the Roberts, and the difference is even more noticeable with factory ammo. I honestly believe it has a noticeable advantage in killing power at 300+ yards vs the Roberts. But I bought my Bob because I wanted an effective-to-300-yards deer rifle which would be low in recoil, and I got one. Though they are both mild kickers, I find a HUGE difference in the percieved recoil levels of the two cartridges. So I would opine that no, the .25-06 is not "better" than Bob, it's just more powerful. Then again, I have never shot a deer past 175 yards. Ever. If I thought realistically that shots over 300 yards were likely for me, I would probably have bought a .25-06 before a Bob.
If there are any other Barsness fans here, and I know there are, he is a member of www.24hrcampfire.com using the name Mule Deer, and he uses his experience to answer tons of questions from members. He was kind enough to answer some questions I had concerning handloading, and he knows his stuff.
 
Kilo Charlie I also enjoy reading Barsness and have adopted many of his and Ken Waters loads for my bobs.
But it was articles by Bob Milek in some old Petersens Hunting and Shooting Times magazines that sparked my interest. I am a big fan of the 243 Winchester but since I have had a Roberts in the cabinet they receive most of my attention.
Powder Burner I only wish that it was true.
Thanks for all the posts and interest in a fine classic cartridge.
257 Roberts
 
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