The 308 family - capable of hunting anything in North America?

1899
you are going to have to give me the reloading info for 180g thats gets 2700fps as Iam no where near that speed unless it is a26inch barrel which i do not like to hunt with. But if you have a speed demaon with a 20 inch barrel please share it with me.

keith
 
I've had much of .308 family, from the wild-cat 22-243 Middlestead through the .243, 7-08 to the .308. Never had a .358 or .260. For myself, the only one of the bunch that I'm enthused about is the Middlestead. The rest are badly outclassed by cartridges that burn a dime's worth of powder more per shot.
 
I've had much of .308 family, from the wild-cat 22-243 Middlestead through the .243, 7-08 to the .308. Never had a .358 or .260. For myself, the only one of the bunch that I'm enthused about is the Middlestead. The rest are badly outclassed by cartridges that burn a dime's worth of powder more per shot.

Efficiency is efficiency and the short action advantage is significant to many bolt enthusiasts... although I have never personally thought that it is such a big deal. The "dime's worth of powder" theory would have us throwing away many sub-capacity case cartridges... .308's would be gone , but so would the ought six case cartridges and the H&H cartridges would be given up in favour of the Jeffrey cartridges... anyone for .22-50 BMG?

I would be very interested in hearing about your Middlestead experiences... load results and info and platform.
 
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In the NWT the restriction is 30 caliber and 200gr so yes they will. Whether they would be ideal is another matter. But they would do the trick, just wouldn't be my first choice. The '06 family and the .366 Wagner are better choices when flinging heavy bullets.
no caliber restriction just bullet weight,

5.
(1) A licensed hunter may use cartridges of .222,
.22-250 and .223 to hunt caribou, wolf and wolverine in
Wildlife Region I/WR/01 or U/WR/01.

(2) No person shall use a bullet size under 200
grains to hunt wood bison. R-081-98,s.3; R-057-99,s.

the Yukon goes further as they have a caliber, bullet weight and ME restriction on Buffalo
Firearms and Ammunition
It is unlawful to hunt big game with:
u
a crossbow,
u
a pistol or a revolver,
u
a shotgun smaller than 20 gauge,
u
a rifle calibre less than 6 mm [.24 calibre]; (a .22 calibre [5.6 mm] centrefire rifle
may be used for wolves and coyotes),
u
a muzzle loaded or black powder rifle less than 11.4 mm (.45 calibre),
u
shotgun ammunition other than a slug,
u
full metal-jacket bullets commonly known as “service ammunition”, or
u
a silencing device.
Minimum firearm requirements for hunting wood bison are:
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A centre fire rifle, .30 calibre or larger, with minimum 180 grain bullets (premium
bullets strongly recommended) and minimum 2800 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle.
(A .30-06 calibre is the baseline rifle.)
OR
u
A black powder rifle, .50 calibre or larger, firing an elongated bullet with a
minimum 90 grain charge and minimum 2800 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle.
OR
u
A black powder rifle, .54 calibre or larger, firing a round ball with a minimum 120
grain charge and minimum 2800 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle.
 
It is my opinion anything based on the .308 case is far too light for Wood Bison, and a marginal choice for coastal Grizzly. It's like a light duty pick up, perfect for 99% of the driving you do except for once in awhile when you need to tow heavy. It will do it if planned out really well, but there are far, far better tools for those specific jobs. Wood Bison on another continent would have a minimum of .375 H&H on them. They are likely the toughest creature I've hunted, I'd put them above Cape Buffalo simply because Wood Bison bulls are substantially larger than Cape Buffalo bulls, and every bit as heavily constructed. Their anatomy causes a lot of poor shot placement by folks not familiar with them as well. You'll hear daily on the internet however by folks who've never seen a Wood Bison everything from .243 up can be "Good for anything in North America." A lot of people forget how big and tough our largest species is. Here's a poacher wounded bull I tracked and put down for the conservation officers that had absorbed three 7mm Mag cup and cores, one was even placed well. The rifle laying on him as a ruler is just under 3 1/2 feet long. He was still covering ground hours and hours later. Also seen the other side, with a single .30-06 dropping one in its tracks, moral is learn their anatomy, and in my opinion, carry insurance. They are a .338 Mag and up creature to me. Ted, and a few others including myself have discussed charges from them as well, in my case when bumping into them in thick bush. Have had another decide he didn't like the look of me and start pawing the ground from about ten yards, there was a chain link fence between us (keeping me in, he's wild) and the fence didn't look so strong suddenly. Something worth keeping in mind, get in their bubble and they are not the dopey bovines they seem from sixty yards. I have every bit the respect for them I do for Cape Buffalo, and by saying that I mean I believe Cape Buffalo are over-rated, and Wood Bison under-rated in their abilities to scare you. This said, I'm within fifty yards of Wood Bison on almost a daily basis some times of the year for work. Hunt them once every ten years and you'll never see a single incident, spend enough time close to them and they'll surprise you.

 
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the factory published load for the 308 is 2610 for 180 grains- I've matched that- out of a 22 inch barrel- with hand loads and the right conditions, that's only 90 fps more- given maybe temperature and altitude, it's not entirely inconceivable as far as the rest of it goes, I've been shooting almost 50 years and I have only 3 calibers in my safe- 308, 223, and 338- I got the 308 right out of the gate, the 223 at the height of the perceived communist threat, and the 338 for that ak dream hunt for brownies I've been re- thinking about 308/165 as the 180 is hard on my m14s plural not sport--
 
Pretty sure the 308 meets BC's minimum for bison.

Barely, some loads yes and most no. If loaded with 175gr plus and a well performing load it arrives at the 100 yards specified with about 2,000ft-lbs, which is the bare legal minimum, you get 2-3% over the limit according to my ballistics app. If a hunter had a severe recoil aversion and was forced to choose the absolute minimum like the .308, I can see an application. For all others, it's a good excuse to invest in a nice magnum and build story with it.
 
I'm thinking of assembling the family of 308 cartridges. I'm a big fan of short action cartridges and the lightweight rifles they come in for my style of hunting, which typically involves a lot of walking through difficult terrain. If my gun cabinet eventually has the calibers listed below, I think I'll be ready for anything in North America. Thoughts and opinions? Especially curious about the 358, which really intrigues me despite its lack of popularity.

243 XBolt - open country deer rifle
7mm-08 BLR - big woods deer rifle
308 Xbolt fluted - mountain rifle
358 BLR - close range big game

I have assembled the 7mm-08 and 308 to this point.

Unless you're going for Bison at 1000 yards... your .308 will be effective on an any large game to a least 400 yards (depending on the size of the animal).
 
308 win all the way for me because the rifle is the most important thing and you can get the RFB, M14, Valmet, FAL, various scout rifles etc. in this caliber only...
 
Unless you're going for Bison at 1000 yards... your .308 will be effective on an any large game to a least 400 yards (depending on the size of the animal).

effective, maybe- but practical , no- dig out your ballistic charts and you find out that she drops pretty quickly at anything over 250 - almost a yard low at 400- the mpbr for the factory load 180 is 265- 267- you REALLY don't want to go too much further- just be more effective in your stalking or step up to the 338
 
Why Not? worked up some fantastic loads in the .308 Win with RL17 and 180gr/200gr bullets. The 180 Partition at 2700 fps out of the .30-06 has effectively taken all manner of game and that level of performance is attainable with the .308 Win and hand loads.
 
1899
you are going to have to give me the reloading info for 180g thats gets 2700fps as Iam no where near that speed unless it is a26inch barrel which i do not like to hunt with. But if you have a speed demaon with a 20 inch barrel please share it with me.

keith

Here's two of them, using a 180 gr Partition.


DSC05982.jpg



Ted
 
Efficiency is efficiency and the short action advantage is significant to many bolt enthusiasts... although I have never personally thought that it is such a big deal. The "dime's worth of powder" theory would have us throwing away many sub-capacity case cartridges... .308's would be gone , but so would the ought six case cartridges and the H&H cartridges would be given up in favour of the Jeffrey cartridges... anyone for .22-50 BMG?

I would be very interested in hearing about your Middlestead experiences... load results and info and platform.

There's more than one way to view efficiency. From what I've seen a .308 is doing well to produce velocities in the high 2500s with 180s. I have no problem getting velocities in the 3100s with a Win mag. At about 2 cents per hundred fps that's about the best 2 cents I ever spent. Another way of looking at it is that the .300s can be loaded down to .308 speed. That would conceivably mean I didn't need to buy my .308s in the first place. A rifle and scope that was never bought could be the equivilent of about 100 pounds of powder.

I only point these out to show there's more than one way to view things, even efficiency. A few grains of powder means nothing to me. Neither does the recoil between the two in my example. Nor does the short action. That doesn't leave a lot of reasons to select my .308 for a days hunting instead of some of the rifles standing next to it. Granted, there are many situations where it wouldn't make any difference.
 
It is my opinion anything based on the .308 case is far too light for Wood Bison, and a marginal choice for coastal Grizzly. It's like a light duty pick up, perfect for 99% of the driving you do except for once in awhile when you need to tow heavy. It will do it if planned out really well, but there are far, far better tools for those specific jobs. Wood Bison on another continent would have a minimum of .375 H&H on them. They are likely the toughest creature I've hunted, I'd put them above Cape Buffalo simply because Wood Bison bulls are substantially larger than Cape Buffalo bulls, and every bit as heavily constructed. Their anatomy causes a lot of poor shot placement by folks not familiar with them as well. You'll hear daily on the internet however by folks who've never seen a Wood Bison everything from .243 up can be "Good for anything in North America."

I agree with Angus... it should be clear that I love the .308 case cartridges... but twer I heading out on a trip for Bison or Grizzlies, I would not be carrying one of these cartridges... I don't see the point of the minimalist approach... having said that, I would happily hunt either bison OR griz with my Hoyt compound... that should tell you something. (I am afraid to phrase it that way... he says, while ducking and cringing...)
 
.308 case is a great case and personally I like everything I've seen that shoots a bullet out of it.

Personally I'd reccomend a stiffly handloaded 300 win mag as a starter for bison, for ethical purposes, with your .338 mags, 9.3's, and .375 mags being even better. Legally a handloaded .308 or .338 fed or .358 could do it out of most rifles with a 22" or longer barrel.

Often people often put grizzlies and bison in the same boat, but I do not. I'd shoot a grizzly with a vanilla .308 with vanilla factory ammo without hesitation, not so with an adult bison.
 
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