The 308 family - capable of hunting anything in North America?

keith mokry said:
1899
you are going to have to give me the reloading info for 180g thats gets 2700fps as Iam no where near that speed unless it is a26inch barrel which i do not like to hunt with. But if you have a speed demaon with a 20 inch barrel please share it with me.

keith
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Missed your question, but Why Not? beat me to it. Then of course the previously mentioned RL17, so that gives you 3 powders to try. If I were to use a .308 again (I may not because the .30-06 is so much better :) ) I would probably stick to a good 165gr bullet - probably a Partition, or I would try the 175gr LRX. I'd look for good accuracy and 2800fps with the 165gr load.
 
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1899 said:
Missed your question, but Why Not? beat me to it. Then of course the previously mentioned RL17, so that gives you 3 powders to try. If I were to use a .308 again (I may not because the .30-06 is so much better :) ) I would probably stick to a good 165gr bullet - probably a Partition, or I would try the 175gr LRX. I'd look for good accuracy and 2800fps with the 165gr load.
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That's what I do... 165's in .308, 200's in the .338 Fed and either 200's or 225's or 250's in the .358... I also shoot TB squibs out of the .358 with 158 grain pistol bullets... I'm likin' ma .358's!
 
Ardent said:
It is my opinion anything based on the .308 case is far too light for Wood Bison,.....



Wood Bison bulls are substantially larger than Cape Buffalo bulls, and every bit as heavily constructed.....




Their anatomy causes a lot of poor shot placement by folks not familiar with them as well.....




Hunt them once every ten years and you'll never see a single incident, spend enough time close to them and they'll surprise you.
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Agreed, even though we developed loads that easily met the minimum legal requirements for the 308 Winchester.



Apparently. I have never hunted the African bull, but everyone I know who has hunted both says the same.



That's for sure! The huge bull my wife shot in 1999 is the one that the vertebrae came out of that are used in the bison hunting clinic for new bison hunters. The spinal processes are 27", yes twenty-seven inches, long in the shoulder area. Add muscle and skin above that, plus another seven to eight inches of wooly hair, and shot placement is unlike any other NA animal.



Oh yeah...

Ted
 
hoytcanon said:
That's what I do... 165's in .308, 200's in the .338 Fed and either 200's or 225's or 250's in the .358... I also shoot TB squibs out of the .358 with 158 grain pistol bullets... I'm likin' ma .358's!
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The real sleeper in the 358 is a 250 gr spitzer started out at 2300+, and as you know that load easily shoots flat enough to take big game reliably out to 300yd.

Why most guys consider it a short range woods cartridge is only because they have never used one. Sighted in three inches high at 100 yd, it is dead on at 200, and about 12" low at 300. Actual shooting, not just from tables.

All the way from zero to 250 yards, the distance probably 98% of big game is taken in this country, one needs no correction at all to deliver the goods into the vitals using a 358 Winchester.

Ted
 
The .308 by itself will kill any game in North America with a change of bullet. You're missing the .260 Rem too though. There are others, as well. Mind you, a lot of 'em are the answer to an unasked question. The .338 Federal falls into that category.
 
Why not? said:
Here's two of them, using a 180 gr Partition.


DSC05982.jpg



Ted
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Ted,

is it an old Nosler loading book.

on another note like my lady your didn't read that much internet and she s not that much aware about what can be done or not.

all the best.

Phil
 
Why not? said:
The real sleeper in the 358 is a 250 gr spitzer started out at 2300+, and as you know that load easily shoots flat enough to take big game reliably out to 300yd.

Why most guys consider it a short range woods cartridge is only because they have never used one. Sighted in three inches high at 100 yd, it is dead on at 200, and about 12" low at 300. Actual shooting, not just from tables.

All the way from zero to 250 yards, the distance probably 98% of big game is taken in this country, one needs no correction at all to deliver the goods into the vitals using a 358 Winchester.

Ted
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Yep... 48 grains of Varget with the 250 SP-RP and bullet seated out to 2.95" (in my Ultra single) has a heavy load clipping right along... not a short range load at all... and plenty of energy.
 
ive tried the imr 4350 but could not get all the powder listed in the case(WW) and I was already hard on the handle. I have a 26" barrel that I can reach 2700fps with RL15 and 175g, but for my shorter brl rifles(18.5") i can not get better than 2550fps with 180s and the same with 165(barnes). I also have have the old nosler book and tried the loads in it and a old pacific reloading manaul(which they load things high ex. 300g 375 imr 4350 82g). Might have to try some rl17
 
keith mokry said:
ive tried the imr 4350 but could not get all the powder listed in the case(WW) and I was already hard on the handle. I have a 26" barrel that I can reach 2700fps with RL15 and 175g, but for my shorter brl rifles(18.5") i can not get better than 2550fps with 180s and the same with 165(barnes). I also have have the old nosler book and tried the loads in it and a old pacific reloading manaul(which they load things high ex. 300g 375 imr 4350 82g). Might have to try some rl17
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You can stuff more RL17 in compared to IMR4350. I tried some in my .30-06 with the 175gr LRX and was right around 3000fps out of a 22" barrel with no sign/indications of pressure. There is no free ride though, so I have backed off on that load a touch but should still be around 2900fps when I test it soon - which is just fine for me. By way of comparison 60gr H4831SC + 180gr Partition was compressed and didn't quite make 2700 fps, but had excellent accuracy.

The other thing is that some barrels are faster than others. My friend has a 24" barrel on his 7mm RM and loads in his rifle are ~50-75 fps faster than out of mine which has a 25.6" barrel.
 
If the only cartridge available for bison was a .308 I'd load it with a good bullet and go kill a bison but it wouldn't be choice #1. I think that all around cartridges like the 308 are great until you get into the large grizzly and bison area of animals.

Yeah, I know elephants have been killed with a 308. :)
 
Gatehouse said:
If the only cartridge available for bison was a .308 I'd load it with a good bullet and go kill a bison but it wouldn't be choice #1. I think that all around cartridges like the 308 are great until you get into the large grizzly and bison area of animals.

Yeah, I know elephants have been killed with a 308. :)
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Hmmmm... so what would YOU take for a "kingly" bison or grizzly???
 
1899 said:
You can stuff more RL17 in compared to IMR4350. I tried some in my .30-06 with the 175gr LRX and was right around 3000fps out of a 22" barrel with no sign/indications of pressure. There is no free ride though, so I have backed off on that load a touch but should still be around 2900fps when I test it soon - which is just fine for me. By way of comparison 60gr H4831SC + 180gr Partition was compressed and didn't quite make 2700 fps, but had excellent accuracy.

The other thing is that some barrels are faster than others. My friend has a 24" barrel on his 7mm RM and loads in his rifle are ~50-75 fps faster than out of mine which has a 25.6" barrel.
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RL17 gives great velocity but not the #1 accuracy when I've tried it- which isn't too much. 2750 fps for 300 gr bullets from a 20" barrel New King and 3100 fps 180gr ftom 300WSM
 
hoytcanon said:
Hmmmm... so what would YOU take for a "kingly" bison or grizzly???
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The New King, of course. Although last grizzly tag I had I took my 300WSM, as I was also hunting moose and sheep and the 300 is a pound lighter. Never drawn a bison tag though. I've been tempted to just go to one of those ranches in Alberta and whack a young range bull to fill the freezer though. :)
 
Gatehouse said:
RL17 gives great velocity but not the #1 accuracy when I've tried it- which isn't too much. 2750 fps for 300 gr bullets from a 20" barrel New King and 3100 fps 180gr ftom 300WSM
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I've heard this, but I think hunters are becoming quite OCD about accuracy - heck, I am guilty of this too. People do not often brag about a 1.5" group at 100 yards, but that level of accuracy is more than enough for the vast majority of big game hunting.
 
1899 said:
I've heard this, but I think hunters are becoming quite OCD about accuracy - heck, I am guilty of this too. People do not often brag about a 1.5" group at 100 yards, but that level of accuracy is more than enough for the vast majority of big game hunting.
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Certainly a fair point. I'm more interested in reliability than shaving a teeny bit off my group size :) But I do like small groups like anyone else
 
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The 308 is really all you need, but having all the 308 based cartridges would be cool. I have a friend who uses his 308 for his for moose and elk rifle with no issues. He even used it on his grizzly bear when he got a draw a few years ago.
 
1899 said:
I've heard this, but I think hunters are becoming quite OCD about accuracy - heck, I am guilty of this too. People do not often brag about a 1.5" group at 100 yards, but that level of accuracy is more than enough for the vast majority of big game hunting.
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We're OCD about lots of things. I weigh my powder charges, even in the 416 Rigby and 470 Nitro to the tenth of a grain. I even debarred the flash holes and uniformed the primer pockets for both. Now tell me that's not a little on the twitchy side?
 
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