The 38/44 Heavy Duty

Leg said:
Some nice revolvers in this thread. I’ve read that the Colt Official Police could also handle .38-44 factory loads. I have an old Colt Army Special and wonder if it could handle it?

Not Elmer Keith loads, I wouldn’t dare.
Click to expand...
I would stick to .38Special for your Army Special.

The Army Special (name) was discontinued in the late 1920's and renamed the Official Police.
This name change roughly corresponded to a materials change in the alloys Colt used in the steel of the guns.

.38-44 was loaded to considerably higher pressure than .38Special +P.

.38-44 was loaded to what would now be considered (low) .357 Mag pressures.

Interesting there is discussion that most US factories reduced the .357 Mag by about 10-15% starting in the early 90s.
 
Lee Enfield said:
I would stick to .38Special for your Army Special.

The Army Special (name) was discontinued in the late 1920's and renamed the Official Police.
This name change roughly corresponded to a materials change in the alloys Colt used in the steel of the guns.

.38-44 was loaded to considerably higher pressure than .38Special +P.

.38-44 was loaded to what would now be considered (low) .357 Mag pressures.

Interesting there is discussion that most US factories reduced the .357 Mag by about 10-15% starting in the early 90s.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think you are correct. Modern factory .357 Magnum specs for a 158 grain LSWC are 1,235 fps. The Elmer Keith .38-44 load of a Lyman 358429 170 grain LSWC and 13.5 grains of 2400 in a .38 Special case blasts out of my 4 inch Heavy Duty at 1,300 - 1,320 fps and out of a 6 inch Model 28 at around 1,350. Out of 8 inch guns it's up around 1,400 fps. This is for a 170 grain bullet, and ejection is "one thumb ejection". The load does not stick in any of the guns we've tried it in. The original .357 Magnum loading specs were pretty much developed by Elmer Keith, Phil Sharpe and Doug Wesson I believe, and I think this load comes awfully close to "original .357" power.

So yes, I think they did weinie the .357 Magnum specs after the K-frame guns came out.

I once saw a friend accidently take a speedloader of the .38-44 Keith loads and load it into his Model 14-4 K-38 and blast them off. There was no damage to the gun, they ejected "one thumb" although he was shocked at their power. Myself, I think he wasn't all that bright. An acquintance of mine who had worked at the S&W plant in the 1970's as part of his training for the CIA told me once that there was no difference in the heat treatment of the "model marked" guns after 1957. A K-frame .38 frame and a K-frame .357 frame were treated to the same specs to avoid the possibility of a mix-up on the line. So perhaps this too is correct but since as a CIA Case Officer (sometimes Station Chief) misleading people is part of his job -- perhaps don't put too much stock in it. I myself do believe him.
 
The Keith load clocks at 1725fps out of my Henry x-model, almost 75fps faster than an older box of .357 mag federal factory 158gr load. Definitely not for use in light .38 revolvers! Had to go with the Keith load because the 358429 loaded in .357 brass is too long feed in my x-model.
 
Took me a while to find my 38/44, makes a good companion to my Registered Magnum. Wouldn't mind one of the BCP marked ones, but not at $2200.

IMG-5246.jpg
 
For the Mexican shooters, the big plus of the .38-44 guns are that the cylinders will not accept the .357 Magnum cartridge and allow to let the cylinder close. The chamber-step prevents this. Sometimes the cylinders are drilled-out to accept .357 rounds and those are no good to us because the Army sometimes checks. We keep some .38-44 cylinders at the Custom Shop in both blue and nickle so that N-frame guns remarked to .38 Special can be registered. Then we take the cylinders back because the guns are never going to be checked again, generally. Also, 8-shot 627's are registered with 6-shot nickle Heavy Duty cylinders affixed. The 8-shot guns would not be safe to shoot with a 6-shot cylinder because the barrel to cylinder axis is slightly off, but it works for registration. I think that over a 5-year period every Heavy Duty cylinder that was advertised on Gunbroker ended up in Mexico. Yes, that was us.

kTZyy0w.jpg


Another S&W revolver that took the .38-44 cartridge was the Outdoorsman, later numbered as the Model 23. Several members have those and they are beauties. Numrich had unfinished Outdoorsman barrels for 20.00 bucks for years, but I think almost all those went to Mexico as well. I still have 3 in my parts kit down in our San Miguel loading room. They are unfinished but otherwise ready to mount and marked as ".38 S&W Special Ctg.".

In this photo (taken in one of a Equipal Chairs that now sits at my Mother-in-Law's awaiting our return) sits my friend Harold's Transitional Outdoorsman -- made about 1948 -- with a refinished Numrich barrel installed as the original was bulged when we got it. Harold is one of the World's richest men and fitted out his Outdoorsman with Cokes we bought directly from Lee Jarrett, owner of the S&W Forum website and whom I have met and corresponded with. Below it is my Model 28 remarked as a Model 23, and Phil Roettinger's Non-Reg. Magnum and finally my Heavy Duty. The Outdoorsman normally sports a 6.5 inch barrel, with a pinned from sight ramp and sight allowing the installation of other front sights as the owner chooses. The Outdoorsman is like a Model 27 but with K-38 style barrel and frame top-grooves instead of checkering. And it will withstand the same Elmer Keith loads, and is chambered for the .38 Special case.
Qy0deRV.jpg


A nickle plated 4-inch Heavy Duty. I doubt the nickle is factory original, but it shoots fine. This belongs to a friend of mine in Guadalajara, but I had it for a while to fix some action troubles he had with it.
IlS4zLk.jpg
 
I must be part Mexican. Because unlike some of my gun friends I don't choose pimpish to describe nickel plated revolvers or pistols.
I like very much the eye popping light reflections at dawn and dusk.
Probably even better in the Sonoran desert or Cancun beach. Next life maybe?
 
Brutus said:
I must be part Mexican. Because unlike some of my gun friends I don't choose pimpish to describe nickel plated revolvers or pistols.
I like very much the eye popping light reflections at dawn and dusk.
Probably even better in the Sonoran desert or Cancun beach. Next life maybe?
Click to expand...

Wait until we move back and perhaps you can come and visit. Bring your Miami Vice suit.

Interestingly enough, my wife is going down to Cuidad Obregon, Sonora to "check out" a job offer this winter. We want to know: is this aimed at both of us or just her? We think they want us both. It's some very, very rich people putting out the offer, and they keep asking my wife (in Spanish, as if I don't understand every word) how long I ran my business in San Miguel, and how did I deal with "this" and "that" and so on. So it looks like they are wanting us both and my wife can go check this out while I stay here nose-to-the-grindstone meanwhile.

I like shiny guns too. If you're going to live the life, you need the shine. Mexican Revolution Peacemakers were generally nickle-plated as it was thought to be more corrosion resistant than blue steel. And anyway, it doesn't need to be "next life". That may never come.

My son's gunrange headgear is classic Mexican. He gets it.
OGifWJj.jpg
 
There is a Ruger Security Six advertised now on EE. It is a 38Spl.

I have no doubt it would shoot the heavy-duty 38 Keith loads.

It is the Speed Six style with fixed sights.

I have a Ruger SP101 in 38Spl that I shoot very heavy loads in. I was told that the cylinder is made the same as a 357 cylinder.

Many rounds fired. No sign of stress.
 
Brutus said:
I must be part Mexican. Because unlike some of my gun friends I don't choose pimpish to describe nickel plated revolvers or pistols.
I like very much the eye popping light reflections at dawn and dusk.
Probably even better in the Sonoran desert or Cancun beach. Next life maybe?
Click to expand...

I agree completely there's nothing nicer that Nickel on a revolver or a semi-auto pistol. Definitely a Class-Act.

But stainless steel is as ugly as a kitchen utensil.
 
Noticed there was a 5” Heavy Duty that saw service with the BCP that sold in the EE.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom