Having covered a Scott gun, here’s moving on to a Webley, to finish the story about Webley & Scott. This Webley-marked gun is not in very good condition, but it can still illustrate something about the firm and mid-Victorian gunmaking.
As with so many gunmaking families, the origins go back a ways. Philip Webley was born in Birmingham in 1813, and his older brother James was born in 1807. Their father or grandfather established a gun implement-making business in 1790. Philip was apprenticed in 1827 to William Ryan and worked alongside Benjamin Watson. The Watson line is interesting in itself and worth a short detour; it began when the original Benjamin Watson, a gunlock maker, opened his own business in 1723 in Birmingham, on Catherine Street (later renamed Whittall Street). Watson died in 1777, and the firm continued at 27 Whittall Street with Watson’s son, also named Benjamin, and William Ryan, as Ryan & Watson. In 1799, they advertised as “Manufacturers of fowling pieces, rifle guns, air guns, and pistols of every description.” They were one of the leading gunmaking firms, and in 1813, they bought £100 worth of stock to fund the building of the “Gun Barrel Proof House of the Town of Birmingham.” William Ryan was a member of the governing body and later became a Guardian of the Proof House. Benjamin Watson the second died in 1820, leaving his son, also named Benjamin, to work at the firm, which was renamed William Ryan & Son at 32 Whittall Street. From 1824 to 1835, William Ryan & Son were recorded at 110 New Street, where Philip Webley completed his apprenticeship.
Philip’s brother was also apprenticed, but to whom is unknown. In 1834, Philip and James established a partnership as percussioners, lock filers and gunmakers at 7 Weaman Street, at the old premises of William Davis, a gun implement maker, mould and tool maker. William Davis had died in 1831, leaving the business to his wife Sarah. In 1838, Philip married Caroline Davis, Sarah’s daughter. The Davis business at that time was listed at 84 Weaman Street. The 1841 census had Philip listed as a bullet mould maker, living at St Mary’s Row. In 1845, Philip sold his half of the partnership to James, and used the money to purchase Sarah Davis’s business. In the 1851 census, Philip was listed as a gun and pistol implement maker living at 84 Weaman Street, and James was listed as a gunmaker employing 24 persons, a substantial business, at 14 St Mary’s Row. James Webley died in 1856. In 1859, Philip’s son, Thomas William, was made a partner in the firm, and the name was changed to P. Webley & Son. James Webley’s widow, Louisa, continued their business, and in the 1861 census she described herself as a gun maker employing nine men and seven boys; some time after 1865 she retired, and Philip bought the business. From around 1863 up to the First World War, Philip Webley supplied rook rifles to Holland & Holland. In 1863 and 1864, the firm’s address was 84-84 Weaman Street, but from late 1864 to 1875 the address was 84 Weaman Street. In 1869, Thomas William Webley became a Guardian of the Birmingham Proof House.
Here is a gun from the 84 Weaman Street period, a 12-bore double-barrelled underlever dual pin-fire-centrefire gun, probably made around 1869 or 1870, numbered 1999. While Webley had been in business a long time by this time, its main business was revolvers, and relatively few sporting guns were produced. The 26 5/8” damascus barrels have likely been slightly shortened. There is no address on the rib, suggesting the gun was not built by Webley but brought in from 'the trade'; the back-action locks are marked “P. Webley & Son.” The gun has an extractor that engages with a fixed projection on the hinge pin. The chambers are over-bored, possibly for use with Thomas William Webley centre-fire/pin cartridges, patent no. 2030 of 1865. The action is an unmarked double-bite screw grip action, and the gun is set up for dual fire, with a two-piece striker system that appears based on Thomas G. Sylven’s patent no. 806 of 1866, which may have lapsed by the time this gun was built; however, the upper parts of the strikers are missing. The gun has minor border and foliate scroll engraving, and a figured stock. Several screws and parts are missing or replacements. With the trimmed barrels, the weight is 6lb 14oz. Overall, it is in sorry shape, but I’ve never come across another Philip Webley pin-fire. Dual-fire guns were popular for a brief period at the end of the 1860s, when it was unclear which system, pin-fire or central-fire, would prevail, and not everyone sold central-fire ammunition. This situation was about to change decisively.
This is what the Sylven-type dual-fire strikers should look like, above the breech:
When loaded with a pin-fire cartridge, the hammer noses hit the exposed pin first. When loaded with a central-fire cartridge, the hammers hit the vertical (upper) part of the strikers, which transfer their energy to the horizontal part of the strikers, which strike the central primers. Not energy-efficient, but with strong springs, good enough to work.
Here, I can finish up this short version of the combined history of Webley and Scott. In 1877, Webley bought the business of Tipping & Lawden. On 24 March 1888, Philip Webley died, and in 1893, Thomas William and his brother Henry acquired the business of Joseph Lang & Son. However, in 1897, the firm of P. Webley & Son was acquired by W & C Scott & Son, and the name was changed to Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co. Ltd. By this time, Webley had become the largest manufacturer of revolvers, and Scott had been the largest manufacturer of sporting guns. In 1906, the name changed again to Webley & Scott Ltd. In 1958, Webley & Scott Ltd. was acquired by RH Windsor Ltd., which was subsequently purchased by Arusha Industries Ltd. in 1960. In 1965, Webley & Scott bought W.W. Greener Ltd. One of the models produced from 1965 to 1979 was the Greener GP single-barrel shotgun. From 1970 to 1978, the company imported over/under shotguns from Beretta, finishing them under the Webley & Scott name. In 1973, Webley & Scott was bought by the Harris & Sheldon Group, but production was very low. In 1979, Webley & Scott ceased manufacturing shotguns altogether, although the firm continued to produce air pistols under the name W & C Scott (Gunmakers) Ltd. In 1985, both Webley & Scott Ltd and W & C Scott (Gunmakers) Ltd were acquired by Holland & Holland. However, in 1991, Holland & Holland decided to centralize all its production at its Harrow Road factory in London, and the Birmingham operation was subsequently closed.
As with so many gunmaking families, the origins go back a ways. Philip Webley was born in Birmingham in 1813, and his older brother James was born in 1807. Their father or grandfather established a gun implement-making business in 1790. Philip was apprenticed in 1827 to William Ryan and worked alongside Benjamin Watson. The Watson line is interesting in itself and worth a short detour; it began when the original Benjamin Watson, a gunlock maker, opened his own business in 1723 in Birmingham, on Catherine Street (later renamed Whittall Street). Watson died in 1777, and the firm continued at 27 Whittall Street with Watson’s son, also named Benjamin, and William Ryan, as Ryan & Watson. In 1799, they advertised as “Manufacturers of fowling pieces, rifle guns, air guns, and pistols of every description.” They were one of the leading gunmaking firms, and in 1813, they bought £100 worth of stock to fund the building of the “Gun Barrel Proof House of the Town of Birmingham.” William Ryan was a member of the governing body and later became a Guardian of the Proof House. Benjamin Watson the second died in 1820, leaving his son, also named Benjamin, to work at the firm, which was renamed William Ryan & Son at 32 Whittall Street. From 1824 to 1835, William Ryan & Son were recorded at 110 New Street, where Philip Webley completed his apprenticeship.
Philip’s brother was also apprenticed, but to whom is unknown. In 1834, Philip and James established a partnership as percussioners, lock filers and gunmakers at 7 Weaman Street, at the old premises of William Davis, a gun implement maker, mould and tool maker. William Davis had died in 1831, leaving the business to his wife Sarah. In 1838, Philip married Caroline Davis, Sarah’s daughter. The Davis business at that time was listed at 84 Weaman Street. The 1841 census had Philip listed as a bullet mould maker, living at St Mary’s Row. In 1845, Philip sold his half of the partnership to James, and used the money to purchase Sarah Davis’s business. In the 1851 census, Philip was listed as a gun and pistol implement maker living at 84 Weaman Street, and James was listed as a gunmaker employing 24 persons, a substantial business, at 14 St Mary’s Row. James Webley died in 1856. In 1859, Philip’s son, Thomas William, was made a partner in the firm, and the name was changed to P. Webley & Son. James Webley’s widow, Louisa, continued their business, and in the 1861 census she described herself as a gun maker employing nine men and seven boys; some time after 1865 she retired, and Philip bought the business. From around 1863 up to the First World War, Philip Webley supplied rook rifles to Holland & Holland. In 1863 and 1864, the firm’s address was 84-84 Weaman Street, but from late 1864 to 1875 the address was 84 Weaman Street. In 1869, Thomas William Webley became a Guardian of the Birmingham Proof House.
Here is a gun from the 84 Weaman Street period, a 12-bore double-barrelled underlever dual pin-fire-centrefire gun, probably made around 1869 or 1870, numbered 1999. While Webley had been in business a long time by this time, its main business was revolvers, and relatively few sporting guns were produced. The 26 5/8” damascus barrels have likely been slightly shortened. There is no address on the rib, suggesting the gun was not built by Webley but brought in from 'the trade'; the back-action locks are marked “P. Webley & Son.” The gun has an extractor that engages with a fixed projection on the hinge pin. The chambers are over-bored, possibly for use with Thomas William Webley centre-fire/pin cartridges, patent no. 2030 of 1865. The action is an unmarked double-bite screw grip action, and the gun is set up for dual fire, with a two-piece striker system that appears based on Thomas G. Sylven’s patent no. 806 of 1866, which may have lapsed by the time this gun was built; however, the upper parts of the strikers are missing. The gun has minor border and foliate scroll engraving, and a figured stock. Several screws and parts are missing or replacements. With the trimmed barrels, the weight is 6lb 14oz. Overall, it is in sorry shape, but I’ve never come across another Philip Webley pin-fire. Dual-fire guns were popular for a brief period at the end of the 1860s, when it was unclear which system, pin-fire or central-fire, would prevail, and not everyone sold central-fire ammunition. This situation was about to change decisively.
This is what the Sylven-type dual-fire strikers should look like, above the breech:
When loaded with a pin-fire cartridge, the hammer noses hit the exposed pin first. When loaded with a central-fire cartridge, the hammers hit the vertical (upper) part of the strikers, which transfer their energy to the horizontal part of the strikers, which strike the central primers. Not energy-efficient, but with strong springs, good enough to work.
Here, I can finish up this short version of the combined history of Webley and Scott. In 1877, Webley bought the business of Tipping & Lawden. On 24 March 1888, Philip Webley died, and in 1893, Thomas William and his brother Henry acquired the business of Joseph Lang & Son. However, in 1897, the firm of P. Webley & Son was acquired by W & C Scott & Son, and the name was changed to Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co. Ltd. By this time, Webley had become the largest manufacturer of revolvers, and Scott had been the largest manufacturer of sporting guns. In 1906, the name changed again to Webley & Scott Ltd. In 1958, Webley & Scott Ltd. was acquired by RH Windsor Ltd., which was subsequently purchased by Arusha Industries Ltd. in 1960. In 1965, Webley & Scott bought W.W. Greener Ltd. One of the models produced from 1965 to 1979 was the Greener GP single-barrel shotgun. From 1970 to 1978, the company imported over/under shotguns from Beretta, finishing them under the Webley & Scott name. In 1973, Webley & Scott was bought by the Harris & Sheldon Group, but production was very low. In 1979, Webley & Scott ceased manufacturing shotguns altogether, although the firm continued to produce air pistols under the name W & C Scott (Gunmakers) Ltd. In 1985, both Webley & Scott Ltd and W & C Scott (Gunmakers) Ltd were acquired by Holland & Holland. However, in 1991, Holland & Holland decided to centralize all its production at its Harrow Road factory in London, and the Birmingham operation was subsequently closed.
