The best 375?
- Thread starter Rumsun's Son
- Start date
I'm thinking super charged batteries in the chrono...
hey, is it not possible for someone to exaggerate or lie on the internet?
hey, is it not possible for someone to exaggerate or lie on the internet?
I think he is telling the truth.
It is possible to produce those velocities without a sticking bolt, flattened primers, or any type of case deformation.
I didn't want to admit to it, but a long time ago I made the same mistakes...With a Sako no less.
I slowly worked up the load watching the case, bolt lift, and chronograph. Nothing alarming happened, but what twigged me that something wasn't quite right was that recoil was increasing significantly and that I was closing on 378 velocities....
At the time there was no reloading data available for the 375 Wby so I called Weatherby directly and told them what was going on. Weatherby flatly told me that despite appearances to the contrary my velocities indicated pressures that were not just a little high, but that I was putting my life in danger every time I pulled the trigger.
A quick look at Hogdon's reloading page (they list the 375Wby) will confirm the pressures.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
Even though the case size of the Ackley and Weatherby case are pretty much identical the Wby has a lot of "freebore" which means the Ackley will use less powder to attain the same velocities.
FWIW
The Ruger #1 will often show zero high pressure signs. The only way you can safely work up a load with the #1 is with a chronograph. Velocity and pressure go hand in hand.
If you measure the case with an accurate micrometer it tells you a lot more then various and sundry loading manuals with velocities and loads that vary significantly between producers of the manual.
Sure it is a good starting point for loads - but to say that the velocity is the determining factor of pressure is not fully accurate.
I was looking last night at loads for 300 weath. My load for my rifle for 30 years has been 180 gr Spitzer with 84.5 gr IMR7828 for 3175 ft/s. Shot the rifle soooo many times. Manuals that I looked at vary that load by up to 4 grains of 7828. Who is right and who is wrong? The Ackley pages on my 375 AI showed even higher loads and velocities then mine!
Trust me that I have ZERO interest in blowing up any rifle in my face!
Sure it is a good starting point for loads - but to say that the velocity is the determining factor of pressure is not fully accurate.
I was looking last night at loads for 300 weath. My load for my rifle for 30 years has been 180 gr Spitzer with 84.5 gr IMR7828 for 3175 ft/s. Shot the rifle soooo many times. Manuals that I looked at vary that load by up to 4 grains of 7828. Who is right and who is wrong? The Ackley pages on my 375 AI showed even higher loads and velocities then mine!
Trust me that I have ZERO interest in blowing up any rifle in my face!
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X-fan, thank you for your post. It was very honest and of great value to many of us here who are not very experienced in reloading.
Stay safe.
Stay safe.
I think he is telling the truth.
It is possible to produce those velocities without a sticking bolt, flattened primers, or any type of case deformation.
I didn't want to admit to it, but a long time ago I made the same mistakes...With a Sako no less.
I slowly worked up the load watching the case, bolt lift, and chronograph. Nothing alarming happened, but what twigged me that something wasn't quite right was that recoil was increasing significantly and that I was closing on 378 velocities....
At the time there was no reloading data available for the 375 Wby so I called Weatherby directly and told them what was going on. Weatherby flatly told me that despite appearances to the contrary my velocities indicated pressures that were not just a little high, but that I was putting my life in danger every time I pulled the trigger.
A quick look at Hogdon's reloading page (they list the 375Wby) will confirm the pressures.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
Even though the case size of the Ackley and Weatherby case are pretty much identical the Wby has a lot of "freebore" which means the Ackley will use less powder to attain the same velocities.
FWIW
The Ruger #1 will often show zero high pressure signs. The only way you can safely work up a load with the #1 is with a chronograph. Velocity and pressure go hand in hand.
I agree with the point about conflicting information in loading manuals. I have one manual, Lee I think, that I found a number of maximum loads that were below the minimum load in the bullet manufacturers' books.
If stiff bolts, primer deformation and the like are not reasonably consistent indicators of over pressure, what the heck do we go by?
I like Farshot, do not want to eat an exploding rifle.
Maybe the reasonable thing to do is not to approach the max loads for the cartridges, but what fun is that.
If stiff bolts, primer deformation and the like are not reasonably consistent indicators of over pressure, what the heck do we go by?
I like Farshot, do not want to eat an exploding rifle.
Maybe the reasonable thing to do is not to approach the max loads for the cartridges, but what fun is that.
I recently read an older article by Rick Jamison in a Shooting times magazine were he addressed pressures.
He used a Oehlers strain gauge on his rifles and was amazed at how over pressure many of his loads were non of them had pressure signs but the pressures were to high.
He used a Oehlers strain gauge on his rifles and was amazed at how over pressure many of his loads were non of them had pressure signs but the pressures were to high.
Hogdon's loads are traditionally showcasing their H powders -- I appear to have difficulty getting IMR up on their site -- They used to show the IMR line as well as WW... maybe just my error
While I like H powders alot in various rifles - they dont do it in my AIs or smaller Weatherbys -- maybe I just have not tried them lately. I use H4831 in my 30-378 to great effect.
Point is that there are different powders with different traits to try - they all can behave differently based on chamber, freebore, bullet, primer, density, the colour of your hair etc......
That is what makes this sport a hobby - to try the different approaches, to wildcat... to experiment -- at all times safely tho.
When someone makes a new (and I mean a new) wildcat and they have no where to look at tables - they have to experiment based on principals of known signs of pressures. We dont all have pressure bbls to use.
Measuring is the best I feel - the other signs (primers, bolt stick etc) are gross warning signs that say its getting too late.... the bbl coming apart says it was a bad powder mix or wayyy overload.
Some mixes work great in one rifle and not in any other -- you can play the odds and follow known recipies that are safe (by a large factor usually) or continue to strive for that perfect mix.
Anyhow -- my 375 AI approaches RUM velocities and I feel based on all indicators that I have in my possession it is very safe - o well we will leave it at that.
As I said before, I can get all weepy that a 416 Ruger / Rem can push (or pass) my Rigby for velocity - but again, o well, that is what Ruger designed it to do. I could cram in more powder into the Rigby becuas eof its larger case but I choose not to as that was not its design parameters years ago - a 400 odd gr bullet at 2400 ft/s at relatively low African pressures.
While I like H powders alot in various rifles - they dont do it in my AIs or smaller Weatherbys -- maybe I just have not tried them lately. I use H4831 in my 30-378 to great effect.
Point is that there are different powders with different traits to try - they all can behave differently based on chamber, freebore, bullet, primer, density, the colour of your hair etc......
That is what makes this sport a hobby - to try the different approaches, to wildcat... to experiment -- at all times safely tho.
When someone makes a new (and I mean a new) wildcat and they have no where to look at tables - they have to experiment based on principals of known signs of pressures. We dont all have pressure bbls to use.
Measuring is the best I feel - the other signs (primers, bolt stick etc) are gross warning signs that say its getting too late.... the bbl coming apart says it was a bad powder mix or wayyy overload.
Some mixes work great in one rifle and not in any other -- you can play the odds and follow known recipies that are safe (by a large factor usually) or continue to strive for that perfect mix.
Anyhow -- my 375 AI approaches RUM velocities and I feel based on all indicators that I have in my possession it is very safe - o well we will leave it at that.
As I said before, I can get all weepy that a 416 Ruger / Rem can push (or pass) my Rigby for velocity - but again, o well, that is what Ruger designed it to do. I could cram in more powder into the Rigby becuas eof its larger case but I choose not to as that was not its design parameters years ago - a 400 odd gr bullet at 2400 ft/s at relatively low African pressures.
I think he is telling the truth.
It is possible to produce those velocities without a sticking bolt, flattened primers, or any type of case deformation.
I didn't want to admit to it, but a long time ago I made the same mistakes...With a Sako no less.
I slowly worked up the load watching the case, bolt lift, and chronograph. Nothing alarming happened, but what twigged me that something wasn't quite right was that recoil was increasing significantly and that I was closing on 378 velocities....
At the time there was no reloading data available for the 375 Wby so I called Weatherby directly and told them what was going on. Weatherby flatly told me that despite appearances to the contrary my velocities indicated pressures that were not just a little high, but that I was putting my life in danger every time I pulled the trigger.
A quick look at Hogdon's reloading page (they list the 375Wby) will confirm the pressures.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
Even though the case size of the Ackley and Weatherby case are pretty much identical the Wby has a lot of "freebore" which means the Ackley will use less powder to attain the same velocities.
FWIW
The Ruger #1 will often show zero high pressure signs. The only way you can safely work up a load with the #1 is with a chronograph. Velocity and pressure go hand in hand.
Yup, we used to call it the Sako factor. Bottom line, if primer pockets are staying tight you're good to go. If they loosen up after 1-2 rounds better back her way down.
I guess my point was that watching a chronograph as you work up a load will keep your head attached to you shoulders. Loads will vary from bullet to bullet, but the bottom line is that if you are running your 300Wby 180 grainers faster that 3200fps you are most likely too hot.
IMHO the Ackley reloading data is ridiculous and on the verge of being downright dangerous....The Ackley books have got me into trouble more than once....The 375Wby was one of those times.
Ackley wrote this stuff long before there were reasonably affordable pressure testing equipment available.
Measuring cases by itself can be rather suspect. My buddy has a 43 Oehler that we used to compared our case measurements to the strain gauge readings and lets just say that while the results were far from conclusive it does help to paint an overall pressure picture....Perhaps a machinist would fair better, but suffice to say that you can change the case measurement just by holding (warming) the case in your hand for too long.
My primer pocket never got loose with my 375Wby loads.
My buddy has a 416 Rem on a Sako L61.
The cases were in perfect shape and the brass was on its 6 or 7th firing when I caught up with him.
He was shooting 400 Hornadys at 2700fps!
Can't begin to explain that one, and i have only seen this twice, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Yikes, that is a touch fast for 400s. I'm amazed the cases held up. With my first 416 Rem. the load I settled on was launching them at slightly over 2500. The same load in my last one was 2460 fps. Just for the record my 300 WBYs have always gone very close to 3300 with 180s although when I used the 300 WBY I normally shot the 200 Nosler at 3100.
hey, is it not possible for someone to exaggerate or lie on the internet?
Is this another suggestion that I'm a liar ??
Certainly one way to chase away a customer....
no no, it was a tongue in cheek comment about Camp Cook who has been known to stretch the truth himself
kinda ironic that he was accusing someone of not telling it how it was. PS I am not at work
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My 416 ran best at around 2450....2700 is insane.
He told me the Hornady rep said, "I'm not talking to you because you are a dead man"....At least you will be if you keep shooting that load"!
The last 300Wby I had was when H-4831 was the hot powder! I could get 3200fps with a 180 Nosler Partition, but I had to lean on it to make it happen. I would imagine that RL-22, IMR 7828, and RL-25 would get you close to 3300, but the load will be warm.
The 200 Nosler is my favorite 30 cal magnum bullet....It makes a 30mag behave like a 338Win....Quite a compliment in my books!
I run the 200 Nosler at 2950 in my 300Win....I expect (given the right powder) the 300Wby would do 3100 without much problem.
Yeah maybe but only to snivelling little anti's that deserve it...
Kevan I'll back tb up this time it was definately directed at me and not you...
like I said tongue in cheek
PS I had a 416 Rem Mag (Ruger No1) and with 400 gr Interlocks & 76 grs H4895 I would get a hair over 2400 fps. With 78 grs Varget or RL15 Id get 2375 f/s
