The budget rifle lie and many others

Dogleg said:
Lock = 600 to 1800
Stock 600 to 1000
Barrel = 600 to 800 installed. Includes a couple hundred for thread and chamber.
Trigger? Trueing? Bedding? Mounts? Optics?

Screwing a pre-chambered barrel on a Savage, and bedding it into a tupperware stock then setting the trigger might be fun, but its hardly "building". For a $1000 you're lucky to get a good stock and trigger. Sorry.
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Hmmmm I would dispute that point...

I have a Stevens 200 in .223 with a Rifle basix trigger in a Bell&Carlson medalist tactical that I am more then pleased with... Mcmillans and such are nice but aside from the name and not so distinct profile most if not all will require the same ammount of bedding as my $300 B&C...

As for the triggers there is absolutely no dissernable difference to me between a remmington or savage aftermarket trigger both set at 1LB... I have compared a half dozen all side by side and can't tell the difference between 1LB and 1LB but perhaps others can??



20/30+yrs ago you were the talk of the town if you had a "smith" build you a rifle... That typically entailed a reblue and rechamber of a factory or surplus Mauser and perhaps a nice hardwood stock and some form of upgraded sights...

slapping a trigger on a rebarreld savage and shoving it in a Tupperware stock is actually "building" a rifle by definition...
 
slapping a trigger on a rebarreld savage and shoving it in a Tupperware stock is actually "building" a rifle by definition...
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I'd call anything that you can do with a screwdriver and a stir stick "assembleing" or maybe just "bedding". I've got a couple Bell and Carlson stocks, some Savages and a few Rifle basics triggers. I don't see where McMillan, Bat and Jewel have anything to worry about.
 
I have learned more about precision shooting here, in this thread

then I have with everything else I have read ever.

Thank you gents, for having it out like this and "keepin' it real"

Probably saved me alot of time, effort and shame in the future.

This thread, right here, is what internet communities are all about.
 
I started with a stock savage, started shooting hand loads and got 1MOA, bought a new stock, bedded it, groups shrunk to about .75MOA on a good day, otherwise it was still 1MOA, and an aftermarket barrel put on and now it is capable of .5MOA or better .... slowly over time you end up putting in 500$ here, 500$ there, etc. It adds up. Now do I have a rifle that is in the .2s - .3s?, no I do not. Do I want to get there? yes I do.

Once you've done the above hopefully you start to really enjoy shooting. In the process you learn a lot and learn about all the other expensive goodies that are out there. I think there comes a point were you can justify the expensive goodies to yourself, if anything, because you can recognize the extra quality or what it will give you down-range.

I've gone from think that 800$ was a lot for a rifle to now thinking that one day it'll be nice to own a TRG or Coyote or a 100% custom (action, barrel, stock, trigger,etc). Why? Because I like this hobby and I shoot my guns way more often than I use my 4000$ 4-wheeler.

It's a slippery slope this shooting thing! I do however think its a good think to start inexpensive (not cheap, cheap is wasting money) because you will build as you and learn. You can't run before you walk.
 
Exactly!! you have to figure out what you want, a hunting rifle or a bench rest match (mine is 7000 dollar piece wich of course has nothing to do with a hunting rifle and my hunting rifle just short 1200 bucks) rifle its hard to get both especially if you're hunting in the mountains then you need light. In Europe a good scope starts at 2000 bucks, so its a matter of point of view.
reloading is a MUST!!! and he who buys cheap buys twice or may be three times. Thanks to all for this serious discussion!!


Tikka223 said:
I started with a stock savage, started shooting hand loads and got 1MOA, bought a new stock, bedded it, groups shrunk to about .75MOA on a good day, otherwise it was still 1MOA, and an aftermarket barrel put on and now it is capable of .5MOA or better .... slowly over time you end up putting in 500$ here, 500$ there, etc. It adds up. Now do I have a rifle that is in the .2s - .3s?, no I do not. Do I want to get there? yes I do.

Once you've done the above hopefully you start to really enjoy shooting. In the process you learn a lot and learn about all the other expensive goodies that are out there. I think there comes a point were you can justify the expensive goodies to yourself, if anything, because you can recognize the extra quality or what it will give you down-range.

I've gone from think that 800$ was a lot for a rifle to now thinking that one day it'll be nice to own a TRG or Coyote or a 100% custom (action, barrel, stock, trigger,etc). Why? Because I like this hobby and I shoot my guns way more often than I use my 4000$ 4-wheeler.

It's a slippery slope this shooting thing! I do however think its a good think to start inexpensive (not cheap, cheap is wasting money) because you will build as you and learn. You can't run before you walk.
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Yes Ive seen this thread and if one were to buy all these tools and put all this time just into the stock, as the gentleman has done to make his hand made stock and all the hours and other work the gun would probably be priceless! most of us do not have the vast array of tools in our basement (just for wood working)

when I consider a build I consider every thing the only thing budget here is the actual action and scope ( and the results will follow in the grouping) if one would have to pay some one to make this stock OUCH! and thats just his stock work, read the whole thread.

The next thing is the grouping on the rifle was not satisfactory at all and all that work! is it really still budget after all that work?

but a very good craftsman thats for sure!

[/I]
Gobc said:
I think you should take a look at this thread. I might help you feel better about shooting on a budget.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=678068
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Sounds like you want a CHEAP Escalade. ;)

Some things simple cannot be done for what you want to spend.

I did my "budget" not "cheap" precision build to see if I could, the rifle came in at just shy of 2K , that is with a Krieger barrel.
 
Mikeness said:
Yes Ive seen this thread and if one were to buy all these tools and put all this time just into the stock gentleman has to make his hand made stock, the gun would probably be priceless! most of us do not have the vast array of tools in our basement (just for wood working)

when I consider a build I consider every thing the only thing budget here is the actual barreled action and scope (which the scope would be no good in the out doors or bad weather this scope also has to tactical value) if one would have to pay some one to make this stock OUCH!

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My main point was that Bob was able to put a cheap rifle together even before he built the stock. For the record, he does makes stocks for people at reasonable prices. He made me a stock for my old norc m14. I think a modern bolt action rilfe will get you to at least 3/4 moa out of the box. If you want to emulate a harder target shooting expereince, use a scope with less magnification and larger targets.
 
With a Savage action, an aftermarket barrel, and handloaded ammunition the average shooter can build (assemble, whatever) a rig that will shoot 1/2 MOA or better, for under say $2000 including glass.

That's pretty cool.

It's especially cool for the sport of shooting, because you start that build at $400 or so, and slowly add things as you have the money.

We all need more people to be shooting, it's imperative for the sport to stay alive. The (cheap, inexpensive, whatever) builds are great for new shooters to get a good, accurate rig without breaking the bank.
 
5,6, and 7 thousand dollar builds the number one negetive impact out there for trying to grow our sport, new guy comes out to the range, checks over the equipment, is wow'd by the targets and then asks..okay how much is it going to cost me to get a rifle like that?? then he gets the answer, then he tries to keep himself composed as he turns around and walks off the range never to be seen again. Ask me how many times we have seen this???? But the icing on the cake was the guy that spent just shy of 7 grand building up a Barnyard custom/kreiger pet project that couldn't hit paper at 300 meters, in the end the smith was having a bad day and must have screwed everything up, he to went home and sold his gear because no one told him it takes a 75 dollar wind flag to make consistant hits on the paper.........Don't matter how much you spend when you can't see the invisable forces acting upon your best buy for the price bullets.......
who cares what it cost, go out and shoot it, oh and bring a friend or two and promote what you have and what you can do, no matter what sport your in the elitists will be in their corner snearing at your walmart budget equipment, but hey fear the man who owns one gun..........likely its the one he knows how to shoot. Forget the gun and forget the ammo, work on position position position, if its not repeatable and comfortable your never going to get good repeatable results on paper, you'll get a fluke hear and there, but not enough to write home about.
 
That's fine yodave. Someone certainly can walk away from a recreational sport & work on personal skills. And at some point with a progression of attainable goals, this shooter, as they develop better marksmanship skills, will probably surpass his gear (budget rifle & perhaps bulk ammo) and seek to buy something that groups a little better if he/she wishes to just shoot better/tinier groups. The inevitable conclusion is high quality reloaded ammo & a solid rifle action with a better than normal barrel. Good optics too, be it a rifle scope only, and/or spotting scope. Because the better you can see, the better you can shoot IMO.

just saying
 
Here,here well said!
Brutus said:
That's fine yodave. Someone certainly can walk away from a recreational sport & work on personal skills. And at some point with a progression of attainable goals, this shooter will probably surpass his gear (budget rifle & perhaps bulk ammo) and seek to buy something that groups a little better if he/she wishes to just shoot better/tinier groups. The inevitable conclusion is high quality reloaded ammo & a solid rifle action with a better than normal barrel. Good optics too, be it a rifle scope only, and/or spotting scope. Because the better you can see, the better you can shoot IMO.

just saying
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One point I think most people miss with shooting sports no matter what the dicipline is, is keeping your class or sport alive. As an avid shooter and a past semi pro kart racer I have seen plenty of really talented and enthusiastic people fall by the way side, especially in the karting world because they couldn't keep up with the budget of the bigger teams that forgot to have fun and were more worked about when they were going to get the next widget that'll make them faster. When I started racing I was given a 10 year old set up for my birthday and was told to go have fun. I had so much fun I won the provincials and regionals that year. It's taken me several years and plenty of hard learned lessons to realize that that first year of racing was my best year even though we won 5 championships and 8 tournament style races.
I guess my point is you can get caught up with chasing after the ever elusive best on the market component and forget why we enjoy this sport in the first place.
If your budget will allow and you have the means too buy all that great new what ever than more power to you. Plus it's in a lot of ways the only way most of us who have kids that need shoes and eat everything in the fridge and a house that seem to dispose of our dispossable income faster than you can say " but that was for my new brass I need to order" will ever get a chance to see them.
The only way to ensure our sport of shooting will survive is to embrace new shooters and give them the guidance they need to succeed, I don't mean winning every comp, but have fun while fitting their budget.
I've seen it time and time again. A sport starts to take off with a key group of players then all of a sudden it's gone. Not enough players, or it's a burden for the guy running it so on.
Keep the new guys on track and give them real world advise. It's ok if you start with a entry level build and if your budget will only allow you to buy budget brand X do it and save your pennies for the better stuff latter.
The important thing is they come out and play.
Your only a champion if your easy to approach and will lend advise to help others reach your level. Otherwise your just a good shooter that has expensive stuff.
 
Bigdonkey said:
One point I think most people miss with shooting sports no matter what the dicipline is, is keeping your class or sport alive. As an avid shooter and a past semi pro kart racer I have seen plenty of really talented and enthusiastic people fall by the way side, especially in the karting world because they couldn't keep up with the budget of the bigger teams that forgot to have fun and were more worked about when they were going to get the next widget that'll make them faster. When I started racing I was given a 10 year old set up for my birthday and was told to go have fun. I had so much fun I won the provincials and regionals that year. It's taken me several years and plenty of hard learned lessons to realize that that first year of racing was my best year even though we won 5 championships and 8 tournament style races.
I guess my point is you can get caught up with chasing after the ever elusive best on the market component and forget why we enjoy this sport in the first place.
If your budget will allow and you have the means too buy all that great new what ever than more power to you. Plus it's in a lot of ways the only way most of us who have kids that need shoes and eat everything in the fridge and a house that seem to dispose of our dispossable income faster than you can say " but that was for my new brass I need to order" will ever get a chance to see them.
The only way to ensure our sport of shooting will survive is to embrace new shooters and give them the guidance they need to succeed, I don't mean winning every comp, but have fun while fitting their budget.
I've seen it time and time again. A sport starts to take off with a key group of players then all of a sudden it's gone. Not enough players, or it's a burden for the guy running it so on.
Keep the new guys on track and give them real world advise. It's ok if you start with a entry level build and if your budget will only allow you to buy budget brand X do it and save your pennies for the better stuff latter.
The important thing is they come out and play.
Your only a champion if your easy to approach and will lend advise to help others reach your level. Otherwise your just a good shooter that has expensive stuff.
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Yup... It's lonely at the top.

Way more fun when it's just a pissing match between some local boys anyway :D
 
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