- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
The Canadian Armed Forces dont limit their pistol mags do they....?
- Thread starter Power Pill
- Start date
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Because the shooting serials for the range practice were 10 rds and they wouldn't want you to have a couple or 3 extra to throw into ole Herman...
I think this is the real reason. I'm guessing that ammo comes in boxes of 50, which means that a whole number of magazines (5) can be filled by the contents of one box, whereas 50 does not divide evenly by 13.
I concur that condition 1 is the right way to carry a BHP. It is actually safer than condition 2 because the possibility of an ND from lowering the hammer is eliminated.
You're close, but incorrect.
The proper way to carry the BHP is to lock it in your barracks box in KAF before you deploy forward.
After two tours of never once carrying that piece of junk the universal truth is as follows: When you gotta hump everything you need, the Browning is the first thing to go, the only guys I saw carrying it were those tied to their vehicles or who did very short patrols.
I carried an extra mag and 40mm's instead. Never once felt "boy, I sure need my unreliable 9mm today!"
Amen.
I locked that piece of horse crap up the minute I left KAF and didn't take it out until back in for HLTA. It was my Horton's run gun.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
The old 64 round boxes are getting rarer, in the last few years most of what I have been getting is boxed 50 rounds in a plastic tray. Just like commercial ammo but in a brown cardboard box.
Yeah, mostly because of the lazy a**holes who get a magazine that doesn't work and then, instead of flagging it for the gun plumbers to either fix or take out of service, just hand it back in and let it become somebody else's problem. If I had a dollar for every time I've been on the range beside somebody #####ing one of his magazines wouldn't feed properly, and then watched the same piece of junk hand his mags in at the end of the day without saying a word, I could ring the bell in the mess.
Of course, after watching the storesmen at the Infantry School in Gagetown, The Center Of Pestilence, take NFG weapons and parts and just put them back even after being told they needed the attention of the gun plumbers, maybe it is a bit more complex than loser ignorance. People like that are just junk.
National Defence Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. N-5
Canadian Forces
14. The Canadian Forces are the armed forces of Her Majesty raised by Canada and consist of one Service called the Canadian Armed Forces.
R.S., c. N-4, s. 14.
Confused yet?PART II
THE CANADIAN FORCES
Constitution
THE CANADIAN FORCES
Constitution
Canadian Forces
14. The Canadian Forces are the armed forces of Her Majesty raised by Canada and consist of one Service called the Canadian Armed Forces.
R.S., c. N-4, s. 14.
- Location
- South of your border
I heard for the Browning L9A1 its SOP to only load it to 10 in the British Army. Perhaps CF does the same.
Henry The Yellow Dart
CGN Regular
- Location
- Ottawa, Ontario
IMH experience of the guys that carried BHP's always tried to get newer magazines because the universal truth is that the older ones are junk. If you have the time to find ones that work and keep them in that condition then you're good to go; a buddy of mine did this with his mags. Failing that I've also seen guys going to Americans for a little help sending them hi-capacity mags from the States. Once they leave theatre they just pass it on to the next guy that happens to be around. My section commander had a couple of Mecgar mags given to him and he passed them onto the next fellow after our tour was complete. Sometimes the aftermarket mags were only 10 rounds (not sure which States limit pistol mags)...but I'd rather have 10 rounds that feed flawlessly then 13 rounds that shake out like a box of smarties when you eject the mag. The BHP's range from well used and worn out to new "warstock" still in packing grease. Of course the "new" are still the Older Inglis model but in a pinch they still work quite well for what they are.
As for condition while carrying I saw a few differences depending on where I was at the time. In KAF almost always unloaded with mag out unless you were D&S ie. dreaded gate duty. However when I was out in a strong point all the guys carried them readied, round chambered and on safe. I find that ND's with a rifle are usually lack of vigillance and consistency....and ND's with the BHP are lack of confidence.
As for condition while carrying I saw a few differences depending on where I was at the time. In KAF almost always unloaded with mag out unless you were D&S ie. dreaded gate duty. However when I was out in a strong point all the guys carried them readied, round chambered and on safe. I find that ND's with a rifle are usually lack of vigillance and consistency....and ND's with the BHP are lack of confidence.
- Location
- Sudbury, ON
Navy boarding parties also carries Sig 225.
mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I have my guys crush it in a vice before they turn it in - then someone is forced to do something about it. It initially resulted in my BQMS coming to me and complaining about "guys crushing their pistol mags...", but after I told him that it was on my instruction they simply got replaced.
I wish that I had a dollar for every one of the old plastic mags that I put the boot heel to back in the day - I also could ring the bell (and get change back)...
blake
Mag lips applied smartly to carrier body at end ex... or concrete floor right in front of the CQ prior to turn in... I ragged on my section all the time to ALWAYS flag NS mags, and he was sick of it and more than happy to just take them as junk. At least that's my theory, because he never jacked me up for breaking mags.
Man those things were just an unbelievable piece of junk. It is incredibly difficult to believe those magazines were ever trialed.
Is this the point where we start expressing our utter contempt for the "tac vest" that isn't?
I'd sure like to have all the guys who gave the thumbs up to that piece of crap in one room. If they were real, live combat arms, I'd like to ask them "Just what the feck were you Larries thinking when you approved this thing?". I'd rather have the old webbing any day of the week, if for no other reason than you could configure it whatever way worked for you (okay, some regiments are notorious for having One Way To Wear Your Fighting Order).
Boy, to be a fly on the wall sometimes.
It is all about the user and maintenance, not the weapon.
You can find BHPs in service today that will run all day, every day without a bobble. And you can find BHPs that can't feed two rounds in a row. The question that needs to be asked is why the unserviceable ones are still being issued. There are three possibilities:
- Guys who draw an unserviceable pistol and are too lazy to flag it for repair/replacement when they hand it in. And so it goes out again, and the myth of the unreliable BHP grows with the next unhappy camper who draws an NS weapon.
- Guys are flagging the pistols, but the gun plumbers refuse to repair them to proper working order or replace them.
- Guys do flag them, and the gun plumbers would fix them, but the storesmen are too lazy to make the effort to put the pistols in the hands of the gun plumbers for repair.
My guess, especially after what I saw in Gagetown this summer, is a combination of options 1 and 3. I have a hard time believing the gun plumbers can't or don't want to deal with defective weapons. When the techs showed up to prove our overhead firing and flank firing guns on the range, in about five minutes they fixed my weapon that the storesmen had not brought to their attention in the two months that I had been handing it in every time with a tag indicating it needed repair.
That's how weapons become "junk"...
That is not restricted to the BHP, either. During the theory portion, some of the .50 cals we were working on in the classroom were near new. Then we went out to the range with some other very well worn .50's and something like 30,000 rounds of .50. Within about 1500 rounds, every one of those old pieces of junk were broken, and out for the day. Even Mr. Fifty Cal, the civilian expert there with the weapons techs, couldn't get them running again. So we loaded all the ammo back on the trucks and went back to the base.
You could say after that the .50 cal is junk as well, but like the BHP, that is simply not the case. All weapons eventually need service and repair, and all eventually reach the end of their useful life span. When they don't get that service and repair and aren't taken out of service at the end of that lifespan, then you start getting complaints that they are "junk".
