The Canadian Market for SxS's

I want a reliable, well built SxS for $500. Obviously that's unrealistic so I'll save my money for a Cz one day. These guns are more novelty though, they emanate an element of class, but don't really do anything a 500 or 870 already does for less. That being said, the European-style class that these guns have is undeniably attractive.
 
I want a reliable, well built SxS for $500. Obviously that's unrealistic so I'll save my money for a Cz one day. These guns are more novelty though, they emanate an element of class, but don't really do anything a 500 or 870 already does for less. That being said, the European-style class that these guns have is undeniably attractive.


Well, if you mean go bang when the trigger is pulled, then yes, a fine SxS does the same stuff a 500 or 870 will do. But that's where the similarity ends and I'd hardly call them "novelties".
 
You can buy a good side by side shotgun for $500 but you have to be both patient and lucky. More often, at that price range, you are buying someone else's problem child. Or...... it has all the grace of a bridge timber.
 
A quality used SxS can be had for under $1000. Browning BSS, SKB, and Charles Daly 500 are good for starting out. A SxS will shoot high about 7" above the bead. Perfect for rising outgoing and incoming shots.

The standard o/u or single barrel pump/auto will need to cover the target on the same shot. If I was to get another SxS it would be 28 ga or 410 with double triggers.
 
Well, if you mean go bang when the trigger is pulled, then yes, a fine SxS does the same stuff a 500 or 870 will do. But that's where the similarity ends and I'd hardly call them "novelties".

A 590 will go bang every time and has more ammo. Therefore, assuming all other factors are equal, the pumps outclass the SxS. The expense of the SxS with no extra performance over a pump means it's a novelty to me. That being said, I really want one.
 
A 590 will go bang every time and has more ammo. Therefore, assuming all other factors are equal, the pumps outclass the SxS. The expense of the SxS with no extra performance over a pump means it's a novelty to me. That being said, I really want one.

A 1911 will go bang every time and carries more ammo than your 590. Does that mean the 1911 outclasses the 590?

The obvious answer is no, they are entirely different guns. The reason is that all other factors are not equal and can't be made equal.
 
A 590 will go bang every time and has more ammo. Therefore, assuming all other factors are equal, the pumps outclass the SxS. The expense of the SxS with no extra performance over a pump means it's a novelty to me. That being said, I really want one.

My SxS with two triggers offer me an instant choice of two chokes, and a second shot instantly, your pump action offers neither. Your pump action is also longer with the same length barrels.
 
A SxS will shoot high about 7" above the bead. Perfect for rising outgoing and incoming shots.

The standard o/u or single barrel pump/auto will need to cover the target on the same shot.

There's nothing inherent in the design of SxS's or their stock configurations that would make them shoot high more than any other kind of shotgun.
 
Don't want to get into a peeing match here but I think everyone will agree that all shotguns evolved as the most efficient tools to harvest fast moving, usually airborne game. If you don't agree just try it with a handgun or rifle, you'll get the point. Doubles were the only practical way to make a multi shot gun dating back to the 1700's and beyond, although there were a few experimental guns made with more barrels. By the time the earliest successful multi shot pump and autoloading repeaters appeared on the scene the side by side had been largely perfected in it's many forms as the graceful, efficient and reliable tool that it still is today. It's pretty hard to improve on perfection. The fly in the ointment was the fact that this type of gun required mostly very skilled hand labour to produce, leaving the door open to a gun which could be mass produced quickly and inexpensively for the exploding new market as settlers spread across North America.
Enter the inexpensive mass produced pump and autoloading guns. These guns were concieved, produced and sold mostly in the United States in vast numbers. They were designed to a different concept than the typical British or European game gun. The North American game such as ducks, geese, pigeons, swans, shore birds, prairie chickens and the occasional rabbit, possum or squirrel seemed inexhaustilble at this time and it was free for the taking for anyone that had a suitable gun. The pumps, autoloaders were designed to be inexpensive to buy, rugged enough for heavy waterfowl loads and durable. With no bag limits and vast flocks of birds high magazine capacity was an advantage. For the type of hunting at the time handling characteristics and aesthetics took a back seat, a duck hunter didn't need or appreciate a gun that fitted and pointed like his finger. If it was affordable, rugged and reliable he didn't care if it was heavy as a truck axle, handled like a 2x4 , rattled when you shook it and looked like a contraption, it went bang when he pulled the trigger. At the same time, a flood of cheap nasty $ 3-5 Belgian hardware store doubles arrived for those who couldn't afford a new pump or auto and had no appreciation for the fine doubles.
Today the situation is totally different. No more shooting as many birds as you can, fill the wagon. Guns for waterfowl are limited to three shots, no lead allowed. Reduced bird numbers, bag limits and restricted access are a fact in many areas and hunting has become recreational rather than survival. The pump and auto are still excellent tools for waterfowl where mobility and versatility are not as important but the light well made and well balanced double still excels on upland game because of it's better handling characteristics and instant choice of chokes for two different distances. A shotgun is not aimed like a rifle for use on moving targets, it is pointed instinctively like pointing your finger. Aim it and you'll miss. You keep your eyes on the target not the sights like a rifle or pistol. The front bead is for reference for alignment, it is not a sight and a centre bead only really has application on premounted trap type target shooting. On a properly fitted gun ( yes, could be a pump or double) when the stock is properly cheeked and mounted to the shoulder your master eye will look straight down the centre of the rib at the right height to put your shot where you're looking. With a gun that really fits you practice your mount anywhere, practice shooting on the range until instinct is paramount and results in repeatable success. Then you will understand what all this fuss about fine double is about. Jim
 
Most of the newer Italian guns have a higher and more prominent rib than the British standard and stock dimensions are similar to their very successful over/ unders. Not knocking these guns, I have some and shoot them a lot, but they are cookie cutter guns all made to be exactly the same on automated machinery. Every Beretta field gun has exactly the same dimensions. The better Spanish guns are custom made to your preferred stock dimensions so there is no standard stock style or fit, you order exactly what you want, just like the finest Purdey or H & H. As these guns are patterned after the best English doubles most of the buyers are looking for a gun as close to this ideal as possible but at a sustantial cost savings. Vintage British guns were built this way, even the most basic boxlock was tailored to the owner and possibly adjusted several times over the years to accomodate subsequent owners.
As mentioned, the vintage guns both American and those made for the American market were stocked for a very different shooting style that required a great deal of drop. Try an old Parker with a 3" drop at heel sometime, you won't likely shoot it well and you certainly won't want to shoot it much, they kick like a mule. The British and continental guns of the same period (1870-1930) were stocked the same as today, usually just a little shorter and feel perfectly modern today.
I use my shotguns to hunt birds and shoot targets. I hate missing (but I do miss) and I REALLY hate wounding and losing a bird. I use the best tool for the particular application that I can afford and try to become as proficient as I can with it. I'm sure many reading this fall into this category. I shoot trap and sporting clays mostly with over/unders except for hunting practice. I hunt waterfowl with a modern Browning autoloader with steel shot. I hunt upland game with my side by sides. These are the best, most efficient guns for me and if they are also a beautiful example of craftsmanship it just enhances my pleasure. I can understand taking a 'tactical' shotgun to the range, gravel pit or cut block and destroying innocent non moving drink containers, balloons, paint cans, tv's and other junk, we all learned those lessons when we were young and it was fun. Just clean up all your garbage including empties when you're finished shooting and take it with you! When you get serious about learning to hit flying objects you'll leave these toys behind and graduate to better things.
 
When comparing old and newer SxS you will see alot more drop at heel and comb on old ones and much higher on newer models.

None of the newer Italian made SxS shotguns fit me, but many AYA, and Grulla SxS shotguns still have enough drop at comb for me.

I am in this group as well and Browning's fit me better than Beretta's.
 
A 590 will go bang every time and has more ammo. Therefore, assuming all other factors are equal, the pumps outclass the SxS. The expense of the SxS with no extra performance over a pump means it's a novelty to me. That being said, I really want one.

I picked up my first SxS just about two years ago and have picked up a few more since then. I now find myself always reaching for a SxS for any kind of upland hunting or even for a couple rounds of skeet. I am not sure about others, but for me the feel of a SxS is pretty tough to beat.
 
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