The Canadian Military’s Brittle Animal: the C1 Sterling SMG

[stirlingsmg]

I came across this video on YouTube about the accidental discharge of a C1 SMG during the 1970 FLQ crisis, killing a soldier of the RCHA ,
I’m sorry , I’m not computer savvy enough to send the video over from YouTube to CGN

 

[Arcosdad]

Here it is. Sad story.

My dad worked with an Italy campaign vet (BCDs) who lost his arm when a Sten was dropped on the floor of a truck he was riding in and went off ( of course) . Close call.

 

[Bartok5]

I quite like the C1 SMG for what it is, which is a quite refined 2nd Generation open-bolt SMG employing advanced primer ignition. So long as the provided safety devices are properly employed along with safe handling drills, the C1 SMG is a very safe firearm. Unlike, say it's predecessor the STEN Mk II, which was notorious for accidental or negligent discharges....

 

[Claven2]

The stem mk2 was a perfectly safe if the safety is used. Alas, many users carried it with the safety disengaged.

The safety of a mk2 is applied by pushing in the cocking lever, making it impossible to move the bolt.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The issue with guns like the C1 SMG is usually operator error. My dad told me about one guy in training who got confused and decided to try and close the bolt on it with a round in the magazine and had a negligent discharge because of it.

 

[x westie]

Here it is. Sad story.

My dad worked with an Italy campaign vet (BCDs) who lost his arm when a Sten was dropped on the floor of a truck he was riding in and went off ( of course) . Close call.

My dad spoke of several guys in his battalion in Normandy having negligent discharge when their Sten guns fired when they jumped into a trench under fire , round went into their foot , there was a rumour of a SIW , Self Inflicted Wound charge & a court martial

 

[Arcosdad]

I've often wondered how many guys were shot accidentally given the stress and fatigue and thousands of loaded weapons everywhere.

My step dad was with the Desert Rats in North Africa and he hated the Sten....they used to trade rum to the Americans for Thompsons. Strictly against the rules but everyone was desperate for firepower.

Funny after story: the fellow my dad worked with who'd lost his arm was a real jokester and used to tell people he had had only one arm when he enlisted and had bamboozled the MOs during his medical. He would say "I was the only one-armed Sherman gunner in Italy". He had me convinced but I was ten years old at the time!

 

[Eaglelord17]

I've often wondered how many guys were shot accidentally given the stress and fatigue and thousands of loaded weapons everywhere.

Not only that, but failing to properly identify allies and foes. Bird gunners in particular had a tough time of it, but friendly fire still goes on to this day.

 

[paratrooper777]

I used the C1 SMG in 1980s in 1 RCR on the SMG competition team
trained all summer NO NDs on my team
it was perfectly safe when used as trained
if the bolt is put forward first NO mag in , then loaded mag inserted
and safety is on it was not a problem. We only cocked it when ready to fire
It had a 3 position safety S
R (repetition) and A (full auto)
always MUZZLE CONTROL Finger off trigger
of course as it was open bolt SMG it would climb high right when on full auto
so we trained to fire 3 round burst "son of a ##### "
Actually on R (semi auto) we could hit a figure 11 at 100 yards I was amazed.
it had adjustable sights so it could be sighted in
and we had a team weapons tech with us
Big improvement over the STEN

 

[koldt]

Im still not used to seeing the RDS on top of the handguard. Maybe someday I'll get an opportunity to try it out.

 

[1516]

I used the C1 SMG in 1980s in 1 RCR on the SMG competition team
trained all summer NO NDs on my team
it was perfectly safe when used as trained
if the bolt is put forward first NO mag in , then loaded mag inserted
and safety is on it was not a problem. We only cocked it when ready to fire
It had a 3 position safety S
R (repetition) and A (full auto)
always MUZZLE CONTROL Finger off trigger
of course as it was open bolt SMG it would climb high right when on full auto
so we trained to fire 3 round burst "son of a ##### "
Actually on R (semi auto) we could hit a figure 11 at 100 yards I was amazed.
it had adjustable sights so it could be sighted in
and we had a team weapons tech with us
Big improvement over the STEN

I trained on them in the 80's as well. I liked them. Simple, rugged, accurate enough for purpose, handy to carry. One ND on the firing line but attributed to operator error between controlled three shot bursts. Mag was emptied. Good thing muzzle control was maintained. We had them in ship's armoury on HMCS Assiniboine.

 

[Lee Enfield]

That video is silly.

The sad truth is that the deceased had an accident and it killed him - (as I understand it), there was nothing actually wrong with the gun - if the safety had been applied - the incident wouldn't have occurred.

The interesting thing is that I've heard for years that the incident resulted in changes to the C1 SMG, but I can't find CFTO (I don't have all of them) reference to any actual change.

There however is one of the springs which is dyed red, usually a sign in the CF of a spec change, or replacement spring weight - but I don't know if/when there was a replacement program.

 

[mmattockx]

I’m sorry , I’m not computer savvy enough to send the video over from YouTube to CGN

For anyone who doesn't know, the way to link a youtube video into most forums is to use the youtube 'share' link instead of the address in your browser. In youtube the 'Share' button is under the video, beside the thumbs up/down buttons. You hit the share button and that pops up a link. Copy and paste the share link into your post in the forum without tags of any sort and usually it gets handled properly by the forum software.

I've not shot a Sterling, but I have shot a Sten a few times and found it much better than its reputation had me expecting. I expect the Sterling would be more polished and even better.


Mark

 

[Claven2]

I've often wondered how many guys were shot accidentally given the stress and fatigue and thousands of loaded weapons everywhere.

My step dad was with the Desert Rats in North Africa and he hated the Sten....they used to trade rum to the Americans for Thompsons. Strictly against the rules but everyone was desperate for firepower.

Funny after story: the fellow my dad worked with who'd lost his arm was a real jokester and used to tell people he had had only one arm when he enlisted and had bamboozled the MOs during his medical. He would say "I was the only one-armed Sherman gunner in Italy". He had me convinced but I was ten years old at the time!

Not that I doubt this story per se, but why would a GI trade his Thompson’s to a Canadian company if they are so much better?

Realistically the Thompson is a very heavy gun, and after you empty the magazine, 45acp would be hard to come by in the Canadian logistics chain. Not to mention what your sergeant would have to say about things when you turn up with a non-issue arm.

 

[tripoli99]

Not that I doubt this story per se, but why would a GI trade his Thompson’s to a Canadian company if they are so much better?

Realistically the Thompson is a very heavy gun, and after you empty the magazine, 45acp would be hard to come by in the Canadian logistics chain. Not to mention what your sergeant would have to say about things when you turn up with a non-issue arm.

Endless supplies of the Americans. My dad was a teenager when the US Army (5,000) "occupied" Prince Rupert in the 40's.....he said the amount of supplies they discarded was astounding (to a kid growing up in the depression).....

 

[tutteal]

Not that I doubt this story per se, but why would a GI trade his Thompson’s to a Canadian company if they are so much better?

Realistically the Thompson is a very heavy gun, and after you empty the magazine, 45acp would be hard to come by in the Canadian logistics chain. Not to mention what your sergeant would have to say about things when you turn up with a non-issue arm.

See rum

 

[Arcosdad]

Not that I doubt this story per se, but why would a GI trade his Thompson’s to a Canadian company if they are so much better?

Realistically the Thompson is a very heavy gun, and after you empty the magazine, 45acp would be hard to come by in the Canadian logistics chain. Not to mention what your sergeant would have to say about things when you turn up with a non-issue arm.

Fog of war I guess. The Desert Rats was British, 8th army. Ammunition was plentiful and both sides were working near each other. The trade was rum for Thompson... where there's a will there's a way. The American army at that time was largely dry ( well , their beer was all they had) and stiffer booze was in very high demand...the Brits never went anywhere without rum. Unlike Europe in latter months, there was no liquor to commandeer from the locals in Africa! Stepdad was an officer and he looked the other way on this sort of thing, more important things to worry about! Morale very important.

 

[BattleRife]

The stem mk2 was a perfectly safe if the safety is used. Alas, many users carried it with the safety disengaged.

The safety of a mk2 is applied by pushing in the cocking lever, making it impossible to move the bolt.

While this is true, remember that the push-through safety was a retrofit. I don't know what year it was adopted but the majority of Sten guns were made without that feature, and it was added later by field armourers. It wasn't always available, and many men trained before it was there.

 

[Claven2]

While this is true, remember that the push-through safety was a retrofit. I don't know what year it was adopted but the majority of Sten guns were made without that feature, and it was added later by field armourers. It wasn't always available, and many men trained before it was there.

Before that, there was a very positive safety hook in the bolt handle raceway, which again, was not always used.

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

The STEN was designed to be dog $hit simple to make and use. Admittedly it had its weaknesses, but I have only handled one never fired it. On the other hand, I carried and fired the SMG 9mm C1 many hundreds of rounds. The safety is very reliable. S for Safe locks the bolt in place. R for Repetition is single shots. A for Automatic for giggles.

The story about the soldier shooting himself makes sense. Loaded mag. Jumping out of a truck. Change lever not on S, well s#it happens. Sorry.