The Canadian Motor Machine Gun Brigade
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Yes, Canadian Motor Machine Gun Brigade.
Collar flash CMMG.
Yukon Machine Gun Company was amalgamated in with them when they were formed. I knew likely the last survivor of the YMGC. He told me a hair-raising tale regarding puttering about behind Fritz's lines in the Summer of 1918, blasting off thousands of rounds from the Vickers Guns and getting rid of crate after crate of Mills Bombs. He ALSO said that the Official History credited them with going 12 miles behind the Front, but they actually didn't. He said they were "only" SEVEN MILES behind the German Front Line.
His name was Charlie McKenzie and he was the Bursar at Brandon College for many years, back in the 1920s, also a member of the 12th Manitoba Dragoons and took part in the Summer Militia Concentrations at Camp Hughes.
He also was a member of the One Big Union and took part in the Strikes in Brandon (Brandon had 5 Strikes versus only one in Winnipeg). Really funny feeling, looking at an OBU card..... in the hands of the man who it actually was made out to!
"When I was on the Somme, in 1916, NONE of us thought that we would ever get out of there alive." Charlie McKenzie, YMGC, CMMG
They're all gone now, every single one of those..... heroes. That's all you can call them, and yet they would be the first to deny it.
Collar flash CMMG.
Yukon Machine Gun Company was amalgamated in with them when they were formed. I knew likely the last survivor of the YMGC. He told me a hair-raising tale regarding puttering about behind Fritz's lines in the Summer of 1918, blasting off thousands of rounds from the Vickers Guns and getting rid of crate after crate of Mills Bombs. He ALSO said that the Official History credited them with going 12 miles behind the Front, but they actually didn't. He said they were "only" SEVEN MILES behind the German Front Line.
His name was Charlie McKenzie and he was the Bursar at Brandon College for many years, back in the 1920s, also a member of the 12th Manitoba Dragoons and took part in the Summer Militia Concentrations at Camp Hughes.
He also was a member of the One Big Union and took part in the Strikes in Brandon (Brandon had 5 Strikes versus only one in Winnipeg). Really funny feeling, looking at an OBU card..... in the hands of the man who it actually was made out to!
"When I was on the Somme, in 1916, NONE of us thought that we would ever get out of there alive." Charlie McKenzie, YMGC, CMMG
They're all gone now, every single one of those..... heroes. That's all you can call them, and yet they would be the first to deny it.
BTW, many of the armoured cars were Model T Fords, built on pickup-truck chassis.
These had the standard Ford 20-horsepower "T" engine, a side-valve type with splash lubrication only and Babbitt-metal bearingsall 'round. The 20-horse engine was standard from 1913 through to the end of production in 1927; only the pre-1913 models had the high-powered 24-horse engines. They had a 2-speed planetary transmission which was really something: it was the prototype for the modern automatic transmission, except that it went into mass production in 1908!
Cruising speed would have been perhaps 40 km/h and, with a load like they were carrying, I rather doubt that 70 km/h was ever seen, except possibly going down a very long hill. My father had a stripped-down 1914 with a 1912 engine and it got 52 mph (almost 84 km/h) but that was running with the driver only and NO body apart from the front seat and door, no windshield.
I really think ALL those guys were either stone-cold nuts, or else just a bit bigger than they seem to make people nowadays.
Anyway, my hat is off to them all.
These had the standard Ford 20-horsepower "T" engine, a side-valve type with splash lubrication only and Babbitt-metal bearingsall 'round. The 20-horse engine was standard from 1913 through to the end of production in 1927; only the pre-1913 models had the high-powered 24-horse engines. They had a 2-speed planetary transmission which was really something: it was the prototype for the modern automatic transmission, except that it went into mass production in 1908!
Cruising speed would have been perhaps 40 km/h and, with a load like they were carrying, I rather doubt that 70 km/h was ever seen, except possibly going down a very long hill. My father had a stripped-down 1914 with a 1912 engine and it got 52 mph (almost 84 km/h) but that was running with the driver only and NO body apart from the front seat and door, no windshield.
I really think ALL those guys were either stone-cold nuts, or else just a bit bigger than they seem to make people nowadays.
Anyway, my hat is off to them all.
When I went through the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps School in Camp Borden in 1965 the reviewing officer for our graduation parade was MGen FF Worthington, AKA "the father of the Armoured Corps". He did his inspection mounted in one of these WW1 MG carriers-with his driver from WW1 at the wheel!
I believe that this vehicle has been preserved in the RCAC Museum at Borden.
I believe that this vehicle has been preserved in the RCAC Museum at Borden.
What a wonderful privilege!
purple, you are SO lucky to have seen/ experienced that.
We just had Fireflies.... which could be a lot of fun. We were on 2-hours' notice to pick up our tanks, and the depot was an hour and a half away. That was when Kennedy and Khrushchev were making ugly noises at each other over Comrade Fidel's IRBMs with the neat nuke warheads.
Lotsa funs!
purple, you are SO lucky to have seen/ experienced that.
We just had Fireflies.... which could be a lot of fun. We were on 2-hours' notice to pick up our tanks, and the depot was an hour and a half away. That was when Kennedy and Khrushchev were making ugly noises at each other over Comrade Fidel's IRBMs with the neat nuke warheads.
Lotsa funs!
When I went through the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps School in Camp Borden in 1965 the reviewing officer for our graduation parade was MGen FF Worthington, AKA "the father of the Armoured Corps". He did his inspection mounted in one of these WW1 MG carriers-with his driver from WW1 at the wheel!
I believe that this vehicle has been preserved in the RCAC Museum at Borden.
Lucky indeed...I was in Borden in 81-85...took many walks in the Worthington park...where the General was burried in the middle of a tank collection...
I read that there were only 2 of these vehicles still existing...one in Borden and one at the Cdn War Museum...from a total of 18 if i recall...a few years ago the Canadian Military History magazine published pictures of one of these vehicle captured by the German and you see the lying bodies of the crew and all the bins that were emptied (looted)...including boots from the bodies.
Someone may correct me, but I believe the name of Gen Worthington's driver was Pop Saunders. I remember that parade very well. We carried SMGs with bayonets fixed and slow marched behind the GGFG Mounted Troop. Pushing those fresh horse apples with our gleaming 5 lb parade boots took me back to less glamorous times spent mucking out the barn in Sask.
Yukon Machine Gun Company had four Model 1895 Colt-Browning guns in .303" calibre when they formed up in Dawson. Local merchants put up the money for the guns and all other equipment for the outfit, formed it up locally and then offered it to Canada as the Yukon's contribution to the war effort.
There was another Yukon outfit formed up in Dawson in 1914, called the Yukon Volunteers. They had no equipment whatever apart from what they could scrounge for themselves. Charlie McKenzie said he never heard of them after he left Dawson with the Machine Gun Company and that as far as he knew (1973) they were "still on the parade-square in Dawson!"
The YMGC paraded through Victoria prior to going overseas. I should have a photo around here somewhere.
There was another Yukon outfit formed up in Dawson in 1914, called the Yukon Volunteers. They had no equipment whatever apart from what they could scrounge for themselves. Charlie McKenzie said he never heard of them after he left Dawson with the Machine Gun Company and that as far as he knew (1973) they were "still on the parade-square in Dawson!"
The YMGC paraded through Victoria prior to going overseas. I should have a photo around here somewhere.
Shelldrake
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
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Here's an nice web site about the Cdn Machine Gun Corps. Well done,,
http://www.chakoten.dk/cgi-bin/fm.cgi?lang=dk&n=963
There are a couple of articles on the Regimental Rogue website about the machine gun corps,, the
Rise, Fall and Re-Birth of the Emma-Gees
http://regimentalrogue.com/primers.htm
http://www.chakoten.dk/cgi-bin/fm.cgi?lang=dk&n=963
There are a couple of articles on the Regimental Rogue website about the machine gun corps,, the
Rise, Fall and Re-Birth of the Emma-Gees
http://regimentalrogue.com/primers.htm
There's a bit of almost unrecognized Canadian history with these two articles. Ken Nette has been described as the man who was almost single-handedly responsible for the reintroduction into the Canadian Army of the proper use of MGs. Although a lot of work had been done by others before him, he might be properly viewed as the crystal dropped into a supersaturated solution that results in the dramatic change.
His two articles appeared at a time when they were ready to be received. I remember the brass discussing them when I first joined.
I had been under the impression that Raymond Brutinel settled in British Columbia (as oppose to that article's mention of Alberta), but otherwise it seems like quite a good read...
I've known and worked with Ken Nette for many yrs, incl our time as civilian training consultants since retirement 14 yrs ago. I had never read his articles on MGs until now.
I used to hear about the use of the Vickers in an indirect fire role from an old family friend who was a Vickers gunner with the Saskatoon Light Infantry in Italy. The SLI was the support bn in 1 Cdn Inf Div and was equipped with an assortment of crew served weapons incl the Vickers, 4.2 in mortars and 20mm Oerlicon cannons. My friend used to describe MG shoots where they would set up using clinometers etc to bring indirect plunging fire onto German rear areas for long periods. He called it "hailing the Jerries"; an apt choice of words for a Saskatchewan farm boy. "Jerry" was on the job too and my friend was cut up pretty badly in a mortar stonk.
I used to hear about the use of the Vickers in an indirect fire role from an old family friend who was a Vickers gunner with the Saskatoon Light Infantry in Italy. The SLI was the support bn in 1 Cdn Inf Div and was equipped with an assortment of crew served weapons incl the Vickers, 4.2 in mortars and 20mm Oerlicon cannons. My friend used to describe MG shoots where they would set up using clinometers etc to bring indirect plunging fire onto German rear areas for long periods. He called it "hailing the Jerries"; an apt choice of words for a Saskatchewan farm boy. "Jerry" was on the job too and my friend was cut up pretty badly in a mortar stonk.
As a small sample of what could be achieved, from Part One, an old machine gunner speaking.
BTW - note the date of the Vimy Ridge attack, and spend a moment in memory. Every Canadian should visit Vimy at least once.
"As we got closer to the attack on the Ridge itself things got very hectic behind the lines. There were railways 25 feet underground leading up to the front lines, pipelines and reservoirs for water and ammo dumps with tens of thousands of tons of ammo in them. We stepped up our harassing fire programs and were actually part of the preparatory bombardment. This started three weeks before the actual assault, I think. I worked closely with the Artillery batteries. They would fire all day and we would fire all night. We engaged the same targets at night that they did during the day. That way we were able to keep the Jerries from repairing the damage the guns had done. We must have fired millions of rounds that way.
"The actual attack went in at 0530 hours on 9 April. Conditions were perfect from our point of view. The temperature had dropped during the night and there was a stiff breeze blowing snow and sleet right into the German's faces. The artillery was so loud we couldn't hear each other talk. There were 150 Vickers guns firing continuously throughout the whole thing. We laid down a wall of bullets 400 yards in front of the infantry and kept it moving on a timed programme.
"10th Brigade had a little trouble with the Pimple, a piece of high ground at the north end of the ridge, but by 12 April the whole thing was ours. That battle was the birthplace of our corps. We were the real heroes as far as the infantry were concerned. They said that the crack of our bullets going over their heads was the most comforting sound on the battlefield."
"We took a lot of German prisoners and they had a few comments of their own about us. Some of them spoke English and they told us that they had orders not to take any Canadian Machine Gunners prisoner. That was how bitter they were against us. They said that during the last three nights before the attack it had been next to impossible for them to bring up supplies or evacuate their wounded and during the attack it was impossible for them to man their parapets as long as we were firing."
"The actual attack went in at 0530 hours on 9 April. Conditions were perfect from our point of view. The temperature had dropped during the night and there was a stiff breeze blowing snow and sleet right into the German's faces. The artillery was so loud we couldn't hear each other talk. There were 150 Vickers guns firing continuously throughout the whole thing. We laid down a wall of bullets 400 yards in front of the infantry and kept it moving on a timed programme.
"10th Brigade had a little trouble with the Pimple, a piece of high ground at the north end of the ridge, but by 12 April the whole thing was ours. That battle was the birthplace of our corps. We were the real heroes as far as the infantry were concerned. They said that the crack of our bullets going over their heads was the most comforting sound on the battlefield."
"We took a lot of German prisoners and they had a few comments of their own about us. Some of them spoke English and they told us that they had orders not to take any Canadian Machine Gunners prisoner. That was how bitter they were against us. They said that during the last three nights before the attack it had been next to impossible for them to bring up supplies or evacuate their wounded and during the attack it was impossible for them to man their parapets as long as we were firing."
BTW - note the date of the Vimy Ridge attack, and spend a moment in memory. Every Canadian should visit Vimy at least once.
Yes, the date.....
I knew a Captain Vilhelm Kristjansson (from Vinnipeg, needless to say) who was overseas and at the Ridge when it was taken. He was, if I remember rightly, 44th B'n but he was working with the sappers, tunneling into the Ridge and setting the mines.
Funny thing he said was, "Mind you, Iwasn't a SOLDIER. Oh, certainly, I was a Captain and I was at Vimy Ridge and a number of other places but, in our outfir, you weren't regarded as a SOLDIER if you hadn't been at Regina Trench."
He also said that when they set off the main mine, the whole top of the Ridge lifted off and you could see Jerry and all his equipment, in bits and pieces, 400 feet straight up in the air. The mine was made up of about 20 tons of Ammonium Nitrate in 50-pound bags interspersed with 2-pound capped blocks of Trinitrotoluene. Part of his job was setting the mine itself.
He also said that the fuses for the big blast were laid by Pte. Zepherin Sioux, who rests with honour in the cemetery at the Sioux Valley Dakota Nation, 4 miles North of the Trans-Canada Highway, near the village of Griswold, Manitoba. I missed having a talk with Pte. Sioux by a single week; he passed away before our appointment.
44 B'n took some awful casualties, even at the Ridge, even with the mines and the Emma Gees. What a lot of people don't reallise is that both the British AND the French had tried to take the Ridge previously. Between them, they lost half a million men there. Then the job was turned over to the 'colonials'.... and they DID IT.
Two important factors often are missed regarding the Ridge: it was CURRIE, the overweight Canadian, who insisted that the Ridge COULD be taken, but ONLY if the troops were properly trained for THAT JOB. And it was Julian BYNG, the 'wild card' in the Imperial General Staff, who backed Currie all the way, got the canadians what they needed..... and gave CREDIT where it was due. Small wonder the troops decorated their trenches with 'Bing Boys' posters when they could get them: Byng had one up in his own dugout...... while every other general in the British Army was living in a chateau or a fancy hotel. Those two men, with the entire Canadian Corps working WITH them, got the job done. And nobody cared what language you spoke or what province you came from. Not after that. They were CANADIANS first.
I guess they're all gone, now. All we can do is salute them.
I knew a Captain Vilhelm Kristjansson (from Vinnipeg, needless to say) who was overseas and at the Ridge when it was taken. He was, if I remember rightly, 44th B'n but he was working with the sappers, tunneling into the Ridge and setting the mines.
Funny thing he said was, "Mind you, Iwasn't a SOLDIER. Oh, certainly, I was a Captain and I was at Vimy Ridge and a number of other places but, in our outfir, you weren't regarded as a SOLDIER if you hadn't been at Regina Trench."
He also said that when they set off the main mine, the whole top of the Ridge lifted off and you could see Jerry and all his equipment, in bits and pieces, 400 feet straight up in the air. The mine was made up of about 20 tons of Ammonium Nitrate in 50-pound bags interspersed with 2-pound capped blocks of Trinitrotoluene. Part of his job was setting the mine itself.
He also said that the fuses for the big blast were laid by Pte. Zepherin Sioux, who rests with honour in the cemetery at the Sioux Valley Dakota Nation, 4 miles North of the Trans-Canada Highway, near the village of Griswold, Manitoba. I missed having a talk with Pte. Sioux by a single week; he passed away before our appointment.
44 B'n took some awful casualties, even at the Ridge, even with the mines and the Emma Gees. What a lot of people don't reallise is that both the British AND the French had tried to take the Ridge previously. Between them, they lost half a million men there. Then the job was turned over to the 'colonials'.... and they DID IT.
Two important factors often are missed regarding the Ridge: it was CURRIE, the overweight Canadian, who insisted that the Ridge COULD be taken, but ONLY if the troops were properly trained for THAT JOB. And it was Julian BYNG, the 'wild card' in the Imperial General Staff, who backed Currie all the way, got the canadians what they needed..... and gave CREDIT where it was due. Small wonder the troops decorated their trenches with 'Bing Boys' posters when they could get them: Byng had one up in his own dugout...... while every other general in the British Army was living in a chateau or a fancy hotel. Those two men, with the entire Canadian Corps working WITH them, got the job done. And nobody cared what language you spoke or what province you came from. Not after that. They were CANADIANS first.
I guess they're all gone, now. All we can do is salute them.
Indeed. They were Men in those days. I will raise a jar to their memory tomorrow, although in fact it was just about this time today at Vimy that the flares were going up.
It has been suggested that, had the war gone on another year, the British Army would probably have been run by Byng, Currie and the Australian, Monash.
Wouldn't doubt it one little bit. They were the only ones who had any idea what they were up against and what they were going to do about it.
Lloyd george once referred to Haig as "Brilliant..... to the tops of his boots!" This was a reference to Haig's insistence on having shiny boots; he had about 4 pair at any one time and his batman was kept busy polishing them. My old friend Sgt. Angus Kellie, 51 Div Arty, PEF, utterly HATED Haig, one told me that the only three things in the whole world that he HATED were (a) camels, (b) Fray Bentos corned beef, and (c) Field Marshal Sir Douglas Haig. Generally, Sgt. Kellie never used Haig's name without swearing first.
Haig rarely even bothered to go up to the Front, stayed well behind all the muddly, ugly parts. When HM the King personally visited the Front (at Passchendaele), Haig pretty much had to go along. Haig's reaction afterwards was the words, "My God! We sent men out to die in THAT?"
Yeah: Byng, Currie and Monash would have made an excellent line-up. Just too bad that the three of them weren't in charge from, say, the summer of 1915, onwards. Would have saved a LOT of lives, made all those Rolls of Honour in our churches and Legions a lot shorter.
"Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it."
The biggest problem with being an Historian is that people just don't want to listen.
Lloyd george once referred to Haig as "Brilliant..... to the tops of his boots!" This was a reference to Haig's insistence on having shiny boots; he had about 4 pair at any one time and his batman was kept busy polishing them. My old friend Sgt. Angus Kellie, 51 Div Arty, PEF, utterly HATED Haig, one told me that the only three things in the whole world that he HATED were (a) camels, (b) Fray Bentos corned beef, and (c) Field Marshal Sir Douglas Haig. Generally, Sgt. Kellie never used Haig's name without swearing first.
Haig rarely even bothered to go up to the Front, stayed well behind all the muddly, ugly parts. When HM the King personally visited the Front (at Passchendaele), Haig pretty much had to go along. Haig's reaction afterwards was the words, "My God! We sent men out to die in THAT?"
Yeah: Byng, Currie and Monash would have made an excellent line-up. Just too bad that the three of them weren't in charge from, say, the summer of 1915, onwards. Would have saved a LOT of lives, made all those Rolls of Honour in our churches and Legions a lot shorter.
"Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it."
The biggest problem with being an Historian is that people just don't want to listen.
