The Dark Side of Smith & Wesson

Avenida said:
SW has gone down, if you fanboys can't accept it, it's just sad, because guess what? quality will remain low if you don't complain.

The article is not talking about revolver made 15/20 years, it about those made in the last 6-10 years. Those claiming 60K round in their revolvers, I really doubt those revolver are from 2000. I really, really REALLY, doubt it.

So instead of sugar coating a brand because you have a revolver made in the 60 that you like, go and grab the garbage they are making now (in comparison to those manufactured some years ago) and see it for yourself.
Accepting low standards as a clients, makes nothing more than EXTRA profits to a company that has clearly changed it's manufacturing and QC process.

Cheers.
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Yes, that would be as bad as buying a gun you can't get factory parts or service for, and paying more than it's worth.
 
Home3 said:
This is exactly what I was trying to say (or ask) by starting this thread. I am prepared to extend that Skepticism to any other gun manufacturer if warranted. I have started another thread here asking about the quality of the new Ruger arrivals. Doesn't mean I dislike either or I won't buy another one, but simply inquiring to catch possible Quality cheaters.

Aside from general lower quality of many guns, I honestly believe some gun manufacturers (and their distributors in Canada) have targeted Canadians as "suckers" who will take any product no matter how crappy it is, and never complain. I agree with a poster in another on-going Ruger complain thread who is convinced many gun Companies in the US set aside their Q.C. rejects/returned....etc. for Canada. And why not? We always take them, don't we? And there are always those of us who will try to justify it no matter what.

The so called "Canadian Edition" 929's batch last year was an eye opener to me. Many of these "brand new" guns arrived in Canada with cylinders carrying obvious signs of usage, not test firing but serious usage, indicating the use of salvaged (used/returned/rejected/repaired..) cylinders in these "new" guns. Not a peep from the Distributors, dealers and more importantly, not a peep from us the Canadian consumers.
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What pray tell are you going to with them if and when you catch them? As others have stated all guns and I mean all gun have quality control problems, that is just a sign of the times.

Before you you make statements about this kind of stuff you should know the facts of what you are posting. The guns you talk about in your above post are not 929's but rather model 629's.

Also for your info and that of others those issues are common to all the large caliber stainless steel S&W guns here in Canada and the USA. It is a characeristic of all the large caliber guns at one time or another. My 460 and my 500 both have the same marks, it does not affect there performance.

In closing you have found only a very few people who will agree with you and the idiots article so in my way of thinking, or seeing this is that if more people think that S&W guns are still good, then you and the few who share your views, must be wrong. Wouldn't that be a fair statement to make?

Go out and buy some guns and shoot them and then you will be able to make a better judgement about this, instead of listening to some quack that doesn't know his a$$ from a hole in the ground.

Graydog
 
Brutus said:
^More proof that Rossi/Taurus revolvers, manufactured in Brazil have had a horrid history as pieces of #### compared to what is produced in the USA, with an eye towards quality production and proper quality assurance practices.
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Yep. My Smith 9mm is awesome. My Taurus 608, not so much. :-(

Cannon
 
graydog said:
Go out and buy some guns and shoot them and then you will be able to make a better judgement about this, instead of listening to some quack that doesn't know his a$$ from a hole in the ground.

Graydog
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Jeez, stop sugar coating it and just tell us what you think of Chuck! ;)
 
Home3 said:
This is exactly what I was trying to say (or ask) by starting this thread. I am prepared to extend that Skepticism to any other gun manufacturer if warranted. I have started another thread here asking about the quality of the new Ruger arrivals. Doesn't mean I dislike either or I won't buy another one, but simply inquiring to catch possible Quality cheaters.

Aside from general lower quality of many guns, I honestly believe some gun manufacturers (and their distributors in Canada) have targeted Canadians as "suckers" who will take any product no matter how crappy it is, and never complain. I agree with a poster in another on-going Ruger complain thread who is convinced many gun Companies in the US set aside their Q.C. rejects/returned....etc. for Canada. And why not? We always take them, don't we? And there are always those of us who will try to justify it no matter what.

The so called "Canadian Edition" 929's batch last year was an eye opener to me. Many of these "brand new" guns arrived in Canada with cylinders carrying obvious signs of usage, not test firing but serious usage, indicating the use of salvaged (used/returned/rejected/repaired..) cylinders in these "new" guns. Not a peep from the Distributors, dealers and more importantly, not a peep from us the Canadian consumers.
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Why are you so surprised by that? GM Ford and Chrysler has been putting out junk for years and till the last 2 years their products have been definitely subpar, yet look at how well their businesses are doing. Granpappy ran a chevy so they must be the best, north american consumers are some of the most ill informed and brand loyal consumers out there. And when it comes to blind nationalism, only russia is worse. Smith is Murican, and has a huge history behind them. They can continue to chuck out junk, people will continue to buy them. Not saying they do, their glock copy works quite well and I wouldnt mind one, but the company is like one of the big 3 carmakers, it is american and has a long and storied history, that alone will keep them in business regardless of what #### they pop out. Besides with other companies like taurus out there? There is definitely worse.
 
Consumer's aren't as willing to accept crap just because it's American. That's just false. Sure there are fanboys for all brands that will stick by their namebrands to their deathbed, but as a whole it's just not true. If S&W quality had dropped as a whole to unacceptable levels, it would be major news and people would be all over it.

Look at what happened to MARLIN as a prime example after the Remington takeover.

Ask people about what they think of MOSSBERG nowadays with their oddball "tactical" cheapo products.

Remember the RUGER backlash after they supported the 94 AWB?
 
Chuck3436 said:
Consumer's aren't as willing to accept crap just because it's American. That's just false. Sure there are fanboys for all brands that will stick by their namebrands to their deathbed, but as a whole it's just not true. If S&W quality had dropped as a whole to unacceptable levels, it would be major news and people would be all over it.

Look at what happened to MARLIN as a prime example after the Remington takeover.

Ask people about what they think of MOSSBERG nowadays with their oddball "tactical" cheapo products.

Remember the RUGER backlash after they supported the 94 AWB?
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They are certainly more prone to accepting of it, although in the canadian firearms community norinco seems to be the flavour of crap preferred by most people and that is definitely not american. And look through this forum, thread after thread of problems with band aid fixes followed by absolutely no communication of displeasure to the manufacturer. I partially understand, service in canada takes forever with the paperwork and wait times and what not. But nonetheless the manufacturer should be alerted of the defects.

I don't know about nationally marlin levers are still selling strong in calgary. Mossberg 500 to me is the only 12 gauge I am interested in purchasing, and speaking of remington, look what happened to their qc recently, the new 700s are embarrassing yet they are still flying off the shelves.
 
The general feeling of the thread so far (lots of exceptions) is that quality is down across the board, with a great deal of argument about whether we can do anything about it. Well, look at Norinco -- when their products first came to Canada, they were astoundingly solid pieces of steel with astoundingly awful finishes. We complained to the distributors, the distributors complained to China, and every shipment that came through was just a little bit better than the shipment before. Now the latest batch of hard-chrome finished 1911s are pieces of art to drool over even though they still come at a ridiculously low price.

If there is a problem with your newly purchased gun, raise a stink!
 
I don't think S&W has made poor quality products since the 1950's, I don't think they would operate for so long in a competitive market (especially one that is firearms). I'am not sure about their revolvers, as the world of revolvers is so foreign to me it could just be Pluto, but their Autoloaders are now of considerable quality. I don't really think their autoloaders really dropped so much in build quality, but their engineering really wasn't there. The third gen Autoloaders were outdated (they didn't offer anything Significant when the first gen Autoloaders came in 50's anyway, the BHP was out 30 years earlier), and like I wrote in my earlier writeup, the Sigma was a reverse engineered Glock (a poor one at that). The M&P is quite significant though, and is a really good competitor against the other polymer guns.


Also Glock beat them to the market to a bring a Pistol for a round they designed that also bears their name....
 
Smith has .40S&W guns before Glock - they just sucked...

My wife has 7 S&W guns including the S&W MP1522 she just got for Valentines day.

I have 5. I'm not inspired by their 5.56mm or 7.62mm offering but their handguns - especially the PC guns are great.
 
Happy with my S&W PC in 44 and 50. Only complaint is finding PC revolver in 45 and 9mm.

Over the life of a firearm the ammo will cost way more than the gun.
 
Crook: [during a diner robbery] What's you doing, you pighead sucka?
Harry Callahan: Every day for the past ten years, Loretta here's been giving me a large black coffee- except today she gives me a large black coffee and it has sugar in it. Alotta sugar. I just came back to complain.
Crook: Say what, sucka?
Harry Callahan: Well, we're not just gonna let you walk out of here.
Crook: Who'se we sucka?
Harry Callahan: [slowly drawing his .44 Magnum] Smith and Wesson... and me

Sudden Impact (1983)
 
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