The dilema of CoreyTheCowboy

Might want to check out the Hornady loading data - No clue which pressure standards that they picked to use?? For 8x57 with 195 grain Interlock, showing one powder that gets 2,500 fps; about 8 others that get 2,400 fps with a 24" barrel. Then the 8mm-06 - same bullet, one powder showing 2,600 fps and 5 other powders doing 2,500 fps from a 23 1/2" barrel. So, that conversion gains about 100 fps at muzzle using whatever pressure standards that Hornady used? Not going to bother doing the numbers, but a lot of that difference will be gone by 100 yards?

EDIT: And I was mistaken - looked up in Nosler tables - for a B.C. of .410. Table says there will still be 96 fps difference at 100 yards if one started at 2600 and the other at 2500. Up to you if that is significant?
 
Potashminer said:
Might want to check out the Hornady loading data - No clue which pressure standards that they picked to use?? For 8x57 with 195 grain Interlock, showing one powder that gets 2,500 fps; about 8 others that get 2,400 fps with a 24" barrel. Then the 8mm-06 - same bullet, one powder showing 2,600 fps and 5 other powders doing 2,500 fps from a 23 1/2" barrel. So, that conversion gains about 100 fps at muzzle using whatever pressure standards that Hornady used? Not going to bother doing the numbers, but a lot of that difference will be gone by 100 yards?

EDIT: And I was mistaken - looked up in Nosler tables - for a B.C. of .410. Table says there will still be 96 fps difference at 100 yards if one started at 2600 and the other at 2500. Up to you if that is significant?
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I can't speak for MadTrapper143, but the 8mm/06 is all about the cool factor and making a project out of it for me The .270 is my practical, all I need gun;)

New RCBS dies, new 30/06 brass and some Hornady 170 RNs (again, all about the cool factor) ordered this morning

Cory
 
You know that 8mm-06 can be loaded quite satisfactorily using 8X57 dies, right? The shoulder angles are almost identical, only one and a half degree difference. As well, the case diameter at the shoulder is .005 bigger on the '06.

So 8mm-06 brass resized in 8X57 dies will be very slightly ugly-fied. This will insure chambering of dirty (ugly) ammo.

Ted
 
Why not? said:
You know that 8mm-06 can be loaded quite satisfactorily using 8X57 dies, right? The shoulder angles are almost identical, only one and a half degree difference. As well, the case diameter at the shoulder is .005 bigger on the '06.

So 8mm-06 brass resized in 8X57 dies will be very slightly ugly-fied. This will insure chambering of dirty (ugly) ammo.

Ted
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Whoops, that must've slipped my mind. Oh well, it was a fairly cheap mistake.

Anyone have a set of 30/06 headspace gages I could buy, beg or borrow?

EDIT Mr. Potashminer has kindly offered to lend a set of gauges for the project. We're cooking with gas now!

Cory
 
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It's been a good week in Atikokan.

First off, all the components have arrived

MATzLje.jpg


A few dummy rounds loaded up (from some old .35 Whelen brass) that cycle quite nicely through the rifle

dtn6S2q.jpg


And, against all odds, being one of the worst deer hunters in the district, I managed to fill the freezer with my "nice" FN98

Vnh24G0.jpg


Why Not? in a stroke of genius, has shipped me a set of 8x57 dies (on loan) and some brass so I can do a comparison test between the 8x57 and the 8mm/06. They should be here in a week or two, and I'll update the thread when I get velocities from it.

And can't forget to thank Mr. PotashMiner for his loan of the headspace gauges

Cory
 
CoryTheCowboy said:
It's been a good week in Atikokan......


And, against all odds, being one of the worst deer hunters in the district, I managed to fill the freezer with my "nice" FN98

Vnh24G0.jpg


Why Not? in a stroke of genius, has shipped me a set of 8x57 dies (on loan) and some brass so I can do a comparison test between the 8x57 and the 8mm/06. They should be here in a week or two, and I'll update the thread when I get velocities from it.

And can't forget to thank Mr. PotashMiner for his loan of the headspace gauges

Cory
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Another 270 hook set!

Ted
 
CoryTheCowboy said:
I can't speak for MadTrapper143, but the 8mm/06 is all about the cool factor and making a project out of it for me The .270 is my practical, all I need gun;)

New RCBS dies, new 30/06 brass and some Hornady 170 RNs (again, all about the cool factor) ordered this morning

Cory
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I see you have all the necessary pieces for your 8mm-06 project Cory, it will indeed be "cool". I went one step further with one of my HVA M98 8x57's, and re-chambered it to 8mm-06AI. I had a 30-06AI reamer, so "why not?". Ultra cool looking cartridge, but as many CGNers have said, the slight difference in performance is not that great, perhaps 150fps extra max. I have a stock HVA M98 8x57 as well, and I like it just fine. All three versions are a hand-loaders dream. P.S. My 8-06AI is ugly too. Lots of scratches and dents on the stock but the bore is great. I have lightly sanded the worst of them and will re-stain the beech stock at some point and put a few coats of Tru-oil on it. Perfect rifle for tramping through through the thickets.
 
D-Man said:
I see you have all the necessary pieces for your 8mm-06 project Cory, it will indeed be "cool". I went one step further with one of my HVA M98 8x57's, and re-chambered it to 8mm-06AI. I had a 30-06AI reamer, so "why not?". Ultra cool looking cartridge, but as many CGNers have said, the slight difference in performance is not that great, perhaps 150fps extra max. I have a stock HVA M98 8x57 as well, and I like it just fine. All three versions are a hand-loaders dream. P.S. My 8-06AI is ugly too. Lots of scratches and dents on the stock but the bore is great. I have lightly sanded the worst of them and will re-stain the beech stock at some point and put a few coats of Tru-oil on it. Perfect rifle for tramping through through the thickets.
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I considered the 8mm/06AI as well, but then when the standard 8mm/06 reamer and dies seemingly magically appeared, I figured that was a sign...besides, I figured if I got too cool that wouldn't be good for my ego ;)

Like I've said before, this is more just a "see what I can do myself" project rather than an exercise in practicality...if I wanted to do the simple and practical yhing, I would've kept the Sako L61R in 30/06 Ted sold me in 2006...

Cory
 
Here are the Chrono results. Speer lists 44.5 as Max on their website. This was the 170gr Hornady RN with turdy-turdyone powder.
40.7gr - 2202 FPS
42gr - 2204 FPS
43gr - 2245 FPS
44gr - 2293 FPS
45gr - 2382 FPS
Speer says with 44.5gr about 2600FPS out of a 24" barrel (Hodgdon says 2640 with 45.5gr), and mine is 20.5". Had a chat with Ted last night and he figures, for the sake of the experiment, that I should put a front sight on the rifle and see how accuracy changes (if at all) after the rechamber. I'm not a particularly smart fella, but I've learned if Ted says it, there's a pretty good chance I should do it ;)

I have no doubt they'd kill deer though.

Cory
 
They will certainly kill deer, and bear, and moose. After all, that bullet is starting out around 200 fps faster than its little brothers, the 30-30 and the 32 Special.

Get it started out right, however, and you'll really be fixed up. My Husqvarna 8X57 with the 24" barrel drives 180 Noslers well past 2600 fps and clangs moose with gusto!

If you are not showing any obvious pressure signs, I would continue up the ladder half a grain at a time with the 3031, and watch for best accuracy. You are still a long ways from the velocity Speer and others show for that bullet and powder. Your eyes are still young enough to do that when the front sight arrives.

Ted
 
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Well...because I can't do anything easily, I attempted to rechamber by hand in the shop. It was slow, but steady going, trying my best to keep things straight and plumb. I eventually got to where the bolt got to about the 1:00 position and knew I was getting close...but I still managed to overshoot the headspace in 3 turns of the tap handle. Easily closed on the NO GO :(

Since Ted had (inadvertently I'm sure) planted this idea in my mind, I sent him a quick message and said what had happened. After rubbing a tiny bit of salt in the wound, he said all wasn't lost. He told me to neck up a piece of brass to .366 with a set of 9.3x57 dies (I found a set of .35 Whelen first though, and they seemed to work), and then with the 8mm/06 dies slowly start turning in the die until it would crush fit into the chamber (like what he does to make 9.3x62 brass from 30/06) and I ended up with this

mvJ0qpL.jpg


Being careful to set the die to avoid any sort of crimp, I then seated a 170 RN over a charge of 3031

Yz6YxXe.jpg


And after (nervously) pulling the trigger, I got a nicely formed case

9n87Yqf.jpg


It's not what I was expecting to end up with when I woke up this morning, but it appears to work...and that's what's important. The chamber needs a good steel wool polish as well.

Tentatively named the .323 CTC (Cory and Ted Collaboration), it obviously needs some load development to see what it will do. I know I've got more case capacity than the "standard" wildcat :)rolleyes:), I'm just not sure the most accurate way to measure it. Fill with water and then weigh it?

Cory
 
To measure it - that guy John Barsness wrote about that - volume of water with bullet inserted to final depth - works better on previously fired with the primer still in place - excess water squishes out between bullet and case neck - sop up spills and leakages - weigh before and after - lets you compare that volume number - like in the Nosler manual - no clue how they do it, but they report volume, in grains of water, with bullet seated to their COAL.

Too bad about the overshoot with the reamer - now you will want to find some stamps and identify that chambering... on that barrel!!
 
I still have the old slide-rule Powley Computer that we used for years to calculate loads for wildcats and cartridges that had no reloading data. Water capacity for that was determined exactly that way. The weight of case with fired primer and bullet subtracted from weight of the case with fired primer full of water with bullet seated. That was the case capacity used for calculating the load for whatever bullet weight was being used.

Regardless, Cory now has a perfectly formed case that had no headspace concerns.

Ted
 
Powley Computer

Cory, I forgot I also have the Powley psi Calculator and the old Speer Ballsistics Calculator.

IMG_4813-1.JPG

You can really get that thing figured out and hummin' now!

Ted
 

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Looks like the shoulder is a good 30-40 thousand beyond the original 30-06 position. That will be a bit more case capacity.

Okay, now comes the big test. Does the fired case chamber easily without any resizing? Just slip the rim behind the extractor and carefully close the bolt. Easy as can be��, slight resistance��, some difficulty��, not at all�� ?

I suspect it will go in and the bolt close easily. If it doesn't, try rotating the case a bit and try it again.

Ted
 
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