The eternal 70 Vs 700 debate..
- Thread starter ShrtRnd
- Start date
Do they now?
westcoaster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Central BC
Huh, I got a feeling this one will grow some legs.
To me this is a Ford vs Chev thing in that there is no definitive right answer.
I am a Winchester guy, both CRF and push feed. My first Winchester was a Model 670A PF in 3006. Blind mag, birch stock, it was the budget one; but boy oh boy did that thing shoot (still does but I gave it to my nephew). Never felt my life was in danger because I couldn't load shells hanging upside down.
I disagree with the statement one poster made that Remington's are more accurate, I think both makes can have some that don't shoot as good as others. I had a hell of a time dialing in a hunting buddy's M700. Finding a load that worked with 300RUM. The trigger, a contact spot in the stock that shouldn't have been there, and a few other things I would attribute to poor quality control. We got it dialed and he loves it now but it took some doing. I'm not trying to start a debate here just that you can have an off shooter in pretty much any rifle.
I do like the pre FN New Haven trigger - for me one of the best triggers in a bolt rifle ever. My current two Winchesters are both New Haven Classic CRF's although one has been significantly modified.
Shoot what you like but learn to shoot it well. Merry Christmas.
To me this is a Ford vs Chev thing in that there is no definitive right answer.
I am a Winchester guy, both CRF and push feed. My first Winchester was a Model 670A PF in 3006. Blind mag, birch stock, it was the budget one; but boy oh boy did that thing shoot (still does but I gave it to my nephew). Never felt my life was in danger because I couldn't load shells hanging upside down.
I disagree with the statement one poster made that Remington's are more accurate, I think both makes can have some that don't shoot as good as others. I had a hell of a time dialing in a hunting buddy's M700. Finding a load that worked with 300RUM. The trigger, a contact spot in the stock that shouldn't have been there, and a few other things I would attribute to poor quality control. We got it dialed and he loves it now but it took some doing. I'm not trying to start a debate here just that you can have an off shooter in pretty much any rifle.
I do like the pre FN New Haven trigger - for me one of the best triggers in a bolt rifle ever. My current two Winchesters are both New Haven Classic CRF's although one has been significantly modified.
Shoot what you like but learn to shoot it well. Merry Christmas.
gun fit has more to do with shooter comfort and accuracy, but I think most of the comments are about the design of the rifles themselves.
I have experience with both, I like the bolt removal and take down features of the M70 and their older trigger design.
Cat
Both makes and models are quality firearms, each with their own pros and cons, depending on your opinion. Ultimately, go with the one that fits you best, in the version that provides you the features that are important to you.
I have owned, shot and hunted with both, and have had decent to excellent accuracy in both, depending on the individual rifle and its preferred ammo/handload.
As a lefty, Remington has offered me more options over the years, as well as more availability for customizing to get exactly what I am looking for, and therefore I have and owned more 700's over the years. I do not have a 70 at this time, for these reasons. I do wish that FN had produced a LH 70 while they produced rifles in the US before moving production to Portugal, as the fit and finish on these rifles was very good, and the wood was very nice. (I almost bought a RH Super Grade w/ French Walnut as it was an absolutely beautiful rifle! If only it had been LH!!!)
(Both my custom DG rifles (376 Steyr and 416 Taylor) are built on LH Ruger M77 Mk IIs in SS/laminate as they were what was available at the time of the builds, although I would have been just as happy with a 700 or 70 if I had been able to find a couple donor rifles at the time)
I have owned, shot and hunted with both, and have had decent to excellent accuracy in both, depending on the individual rifle and its preferred ammo/handload.
As a lefty, Remington has offered me more options over the years, as well as more availability for customizing to get exactly what I am looking for, and therefore I have and owned more 700's over the years. I do not have a 70 at this time, for these reasons. I do wish that FN had produced a LH 70 while they produced rifles in the US before moving production to Portugal, as the fit and finish on these rifles was very good, and the wood was very nice. (I almost bought a RH Super Grade w/ French Walnut as it was an absolutely beautiful rifle! If only it had been LH!!!)
(Both my custom DG rifles (376 Steyr and 416 Taylor) are built on LH Ruger M77 Mk IIs in SS/laminate as they were what was available at the time of the builds, although I would have been just as happy with a 700 or 70 if I had been able to find a couple donor rifles at the time)
I like Model 70's and have built some pretty decent match rifles on them. However, if accuracy is the primary goal, the Remington design works better. From when I first started gunsmithing, I have always believed, if you want a BR rifle, you want a Remington. If you want a pure hunting rifle, you want a Mauser. If you want a hunting/target rifle with a little class, you want a Winchester. I'm speaking only of the actions here. Remington's design is excellent (hence all the clones) but the QC is awful (hence all the rifles with zero primary extraction). Winchester is a flawed design in some respects, but still classy.
I know I can still build a BR rifle which will shoot under.2 moa, on a Remington action. I am just as certain I cannot do so on a Model 70. This is, of course, meaningless in the hunting fields.
I know I can still build a BR rifle which will shoot under.2 moa, on a Remington action. I am just as certain I cannot do so on a Model 70. This is, of course, meaningless in the hunting fields.
If I could go back in time, I would still have that Ruger! Glad she has a great home!
100% agree. The extra margin of safety in a Remington makes it a reloader's/wildcatter's dream.
As many others have already said, the 70 is more ... refined. Fit, finish, balance, aesthetics are all strong points. And the nostalgia if you grew up reading too much Jack O'Connor is a factor too. But my own experience has been that the 700's I've owned have shot better on average -- and there's a reason that a blueprinted 700 action has always been a solid basis for a target rifle. I can probably count on one hand the number of model 70's I've seen on the line in competition.
Of course, it all kinda sorted itself out when I realized that the best hunting rifle is a custom job using a Mauser 98 action, and the best target rifle is a built around a custom action that bears tribute to its Rem 700 heritage
What would you say the flaws are, besides perhaps gas handling? Curious to hear your take on them
BlackRam, you seem like a guy who really uses your stuff. If you'd go with a 700 for a DG rifle thats an endorsement.
Even Craig Boddington has written that while he prefers a CF action on a DG rifle, he has been comfortable using push feed action rifles on DG hunts, and hasn't had any issues in the field. (And he has probably done more DG hunting than anyone else today, other than actual PHs who have been guiding for decades)
There's an endorsement from someone who has extensive experience hunting DG all over the world! (Including big bears here)
While I haven't been on an African Big 5 (or 7) hunt, I have hunted grizzly bears...and my hunting rifles on these hunts have all been push feeds (Remington (338 Win Mag), Sako (9.3x62) and Browning (BLR)), and my back up rifle when helping a friend on his 2 grizzly hunts was my Browning BLR in 358 Win. On my next grizzly hunt, or should I ever go after brown bear, I plan on using my 376 Steyr or 416 Taylor.
Other than not being able to cycle the action reliably while upside down...and who has ever needed to do this???...unless you are actually being trampled by some big, nasty critter bent on smashing you into oblivion...and the fact that we have powders that aren't temperature sensitive to use in our ammunition for DG rifles...is there any real "need" for CF on a DG rifle today?
"Want" is purely subjective, and if you want a CF action on your DG rifle, that is perfectly fine...I'll not tell anyone that it is mandatory, or that their choice is wrong. That extra bit if reliability and robustness can be comforting, and there is nothing wrong with that!
BeaverMeat
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nanaimo, B.C.
Simple answer… my gun is best gun.
This is a fallacy that I often see. I bought a winchester just before the crf came out, and heard about this, but being afraid my rifle might not feed if I was hanging upside down, I turned it overand it fed fine. Today just for kicks I tried some of my push feeds 180 degrees upside down, and the all fed 3 shells just fine. They were a 9 lug weatherby, an older savage 110, a remington 243, a remingto 300 blk. With legacy dbm, and a pristine action feeding from bdl box mag. Never felt my life was in danger because I couldn't load shells hanging upside down.
Indeed!
My worry with the 700 would be grit/ice getting into the trigger or the extractor and jamming things up, but we're talking very demanding hunt here. Not high on the liklihood scale, as you mention them being used in some pretty demanding climates.
Some push feeds are very robust though! I don't know how much more reliable a CRF is going to be than a Sako/Tikka/AW
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I like both but am a M700 guy for the most part, mainly due to the availability of LH models and more variety of options in a couple areas that are important to me. Have handled a few of a buddy’s M70’s and I really like them, if a LH M70 in a caliber I was interested in popped up I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one. Becoming a big Ruger fan over the last few years, lots of features I like and lots of LH options.
