The first rifle for a kid thread - with a twist!
- Thread starter Suther
- Start date
My plan is to start the kids with the irons and then switch it up if either a) they want something else after they've learned the irons or b) the irons trouble them too much to start.
What would be a reasonable minimum velocity for a 243 load, assuming the goal is 150yd deer capable, and minimum recoil possible? I'm thinking 85gr partition for the bullet, or maybe 90gr speer hotcor.
I'd look at the Hornady 90gr ELDx over enough H4895 to make 2200 fps. Such a load will hit 150y with about 1950 fps, enough to expand that bullet nicely and penetrate enough. Recoil will be mild, approx 4 ft lbs recoil energy in a 7lb rifle. Very similar to a full house 223 load
elimsprint
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kelowna, BC
You need a bare minimum of 1000 ft/lbs of force on the deer so go to one of the ballistic programs, I like Hornady's and punch in some numbers.
elimsprint
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kelowna, BC
Of course but it is a pretty good rule of thumb when figuring out loads, at least for me.
Im more concerned about keeping recoil tolerable while simultaneously keeping velocity high enough to ensure the bullet performs as desired.
Anyone have any experience with a 6mm that'll fit a mini action? 6mm AR for example? The most likely cartridge for now is a 243 due to rifle availability and the fact I already have the reloading gear, but if I build her a rifle sometime down the road the size/weight of the mini action seems like a good starting point...
Anyone have experience with super light 243 loads as a means of introducing a kid to centrefire? I'm thinking something like a 60gr varmint bullet going 2000-2200 fps as a way to introduce them to the increased noise and recoil of centrefire?
elimsprint
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kelowna, BC
6 Grendel
Google tells me that's what 6mm AR is?
Started my nephew when he was 6, shooting a Remington Model Seven youth in 260 Remington. Handloaded 100gr bullets over 10 grains of Trail Boss for 1350 fps. I remember taking him out shooting pumpkins after Halloween years ago. He blew up lots of pop bottles and milk jugs full of water with that load until he was 9, when we switched to H4895 and upped the velocity to 2350 fps. He got his CORE when he was 10, the Nosler 129gr ABLR was loaded to 2325 fps and the deer fall over quick. He's 13 now and has taken 5 deer and an elk, last few animals have fallen to the 130gr Nosler Accubond loaded to 2450 fps, this elk was dropped in her tracks at 250 yards (approx 2000 fps / 1200 ft lbs impact energy). This fall a nice whitetail too
Gonna have to ramp up the load a bit! Hes getting big, now 5'7 and eating like a horse.
Here he is the day I gave him the rifle. Time sure flies by
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elimsprint
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kelowna, BC
Wow, 2 names for the same cartridge. I've always known it as 6 Grendel.
There is the 6x45 aka 6mm/.223 as a choice also
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Yeah, I'd never heard of it, but when I googled 6mm Grendel that's what came up.
Tod thanks for sharing that.
Download the .243, pick any number of wildcats based on .222, .223, .204 or x39 case all are options. I don't have experience with them myself but I did consider building a 6x45, did a lot of research into deer loads for it. A few bullets seemed popular, the 80 grain Ballistic tip got a lot of favorable reports if the rifles were twisted fast enough to stabilize. Mostly softer bullets between 60 and 87 grains if short enough to not intrude on powder space, stabilize in barrel twist and feed.
I do think perhaps the best option would be to let her come along, she doesn't need to be carrying a rifle to enjoy the experience and learn with you. Let her shoot small game and plink with the .22 if she isn't ready with the centerfire yet. No reason to rush things. I don't know how much on foot hunting you are going to do but a 48" tall person carrying a rifle that is nearly as long and roughly 1/8 their body weight isn't really going to enjoy lugging it long distances. I'd develop your light load and test its penetration and expansion on whatever test media you prefer, even if she doesn't carry her own gun.
I do think perhaps the best option would be to let her come along, she doesn't need to be carrying a rifle to enjoy the experience and learn with you. Let her shoot small game and plink with the .22 if she isn't ready with the centerfire yet. No reason to rush things. I don't know how much on foot hunting you are going to do but a 48" tall person carrying a rifle that is nearly as long and roughly 1/8 their body weight isn't really going to enjoy lugging it long distances. I'd develop your light load and test its penetration and expansion on whatever test media you prefer, even if she doesn't carry her own gun.
Any on foot hunting will involve me carrying the centrefire rifle. Even if I get one that's 6lbs all in (which is unlikely because I probably won't be able afford a rifle that light) that's still a lot of weight for her after any amount of time.
Once you find a nice, light, short action rifle, you could order a Boyd's stock and trim it down to fit, and if you reload, pretty much the sky's the limit as far as caliber goes. There may even be adjustable "black rifle-ish" stocks that are made for bolt guns? It would likely be even lighter. Those that have recommended the 243 have an excellent selection. Didn't Remington make a youth model with a shorter action and barrel a few years back (IIRC, it wasn't just a shorter stocked adult rifle)
I don't think there is any factory stock that'll do the trick. The shortest I've found is 12" LOP.
The one issue I see with a Boyds stock is weight - they are not light stocks. I wish I could find a cheap stock for my mossberg ATR in 243 that I could cut down. That would at least give her the chance to try it out for recoil etc. I would just say fk it and cut it down but I don't like the rifle enough to want to have that as her rifle (the magazine is a total joke on it).
elimsprint
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kelowna, BC
How's your woodworking skills? You could do to the ATR what I did to this 10/22 wood stock and make it collapsible so it will grow with her.
How's your woodworking skills? You could do to the ATR what I did to this 10/22 wood stock and make it collapsible so it will grow with her.
Its a plastic stock. My issue is I don't want to mess with the current stock until I get a second one, I don't plan on making this rifle into her rifle due to the crappy magazine, but if I can get a cheap stock to cut down so she can try this rifle while I'm saving money to get a rifle all her own, that would be great.
