The FN C1A1 mystique - from "if you could have just one prohib"

C1A1. A great rifle. I am not sure why so many had a love hate relationship with this rifle.

I loved the thing. Basic officer training 5L27549. I found it a dream to shoot. Had no problem dialing in the gas system and I loved the heft of the rifle.

Yes the piston was a carbon magnet but so is every other piston on a gas piston rifle. Have a Swiss Black Special and guess what, I have to clean carbon off the piston after I shoot it. Tell me the C7/8s are not carbon magnets. And in the receiver where it is much harder to clean.

And yes it was a heavy 11.0 lbs fully loaded compared to 8.5 lbs for a C7. But it made it a dream to shoot. And lets not forget it had 20 rounds (30 if you had a C2 carrying friend who would lend you a couple mags) of tree/cinder chewing 7.62x51 that generally stopped the bad guys with one shot.

It was and still is an amazing rifle and I would buy one in a heartbeat. I had the chance to buy a NIB FAL Para before they were restricted. When you could still buy HK 91/93s by mail from the SIR catalog but at the time 1,600 CDN was pretty pricey (you could buy a motorcycle for that). I will always regret not making that purchase.

I have fired a lot of battle rifles in my life but the C1A1 stands out as one of the best. My Black Special is the other.

I miss my girlfriend Fabrique
 
Thanks for the memories

I’m a new guy here, and this thread looks like a good place to introduce myself.

I first ‘met’ the C1A1 when I was a spotty 15 year old cadet. A friend at school talked me into parading with him, and on the second night I showed up we had C1 stripping and assembling all night. (The first night was drill for 2.5 hours, how I made it to the second night is beyond me.) I come from a firearm neutral household; my family never hated weapons, but as city folk had no interest.

I remember being handed a C1 outside the weapons locker. It was the first rifle I had ever held, and I almost dropped it. Man, was it ever heavy! And the smell… you never forget that smell…

A couple months later it was a range day, and sure enough, my first time ever behind a rifle was NATO 7.62 and a twenty round magazine. Five round groupings, and a sore skinny shoulder that almost outlasted my two day smile.

So I had to have one.

A couple years later I finally found my own Lithgow L1A1. Almost mint, matching numbers, and of course, I swapped out the rear site for a C1 type. Unfortunately, I never got the chance to fire it. Life just took over: busy times a school, ample C7 time in the reserves, a happy and comfortable obsession with triathlons, traveling overseas, career go go go, then finally the life of a family man. I did make sure to re-register it when it got classified as prohibited back in 2001, but I made the unfortunate mistake of letting my POL expire. Those ‘nice letters’ informing me that I would lose my grandfather clause got sent to an address I had lived at for less than 2 years… All the while the L1A1 was tucked in my safe in my parent’s basement, waiting for the time when time would allow me to work out with it again.

So last month I finally decided it was time, as the foggy window of family responsibilities finally started to let a bit of light in. A couple calls later, some quality time with a PDF of the firearms act, and it looks like I have to sell it. On to the sales block it goes, before it gets taken away. The rifle was always registered at my parent’s address, so why all other firearms correspondence except those letters got sent there is beyond me. But I am not bitter, it was my fault I let my licence expire, but I must say I am sad it has to be this way.

I last had the rifle out of the safe a couple months ago. Now, having gone through all this POL nonsense, it is like the girl you loved in high school – the one that got away – only this time, I just found she married and living on the other side of the world.

Thanks for the memories,
David
 
Suputin said:
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The FN is heavy, overly long and about as unweildy as is possible for a battle rifle to be. snip...
I've owned both an M1 and an M14 and like both of them better than the FN. The AR15 is a much better solution for a battle rifle. This I have also carried professionally and owned personally and it is so much easier to live with and operate.

snip...
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I've been privileged to play with samples of all of the above.

The C1/L1 family is a poor interpretation of the Ex/X8 trials rifles. CAL, Springfield, Enfield et al turned a beautifully balanced, handy rifle into an overly long abomination.

The Ex1 "FAL Canada" (which survived in south America & Israel) makes the C1/M14/Garand/HK all into also rans. It's too bad that the "need" for a permanent flash suppressor & bayonet mount turned the C1/L1 family into such a unhandy item.
 
My first one was 7L2612. I was issued it at the old Armoured Corps School in Borden in 1965. I shot them a lot over the yrs and always enjoyed it. It was a rugged and reliable fighting rifle and easy to strip and clean.

On the range I prefer the M14 and Garand. They felt and handled better and are more accurate than the FN. I have shot a lot of quality handloads in the M14/Garand, something we never had the opportunity to do with the FN. The older DA 7.62 ball ammo, that was put up on stripper clips in the plastic bandoliers, was better than the later IVI stuff. The FN was a kicker and could be pretty intimidating for smaller folks and the females on the firing line. I think the stock design was a contributor to that.

Folks tend to favor what they were trained on. As late as 1968 I recall one of the old sweats who was dinged for a quarter guard and had never done weapons drill with the FN. He asked why we could'nt use Lee-Enfields instead.:eek: The C7 rifle was a big change again. It is a dream to shoot and a lot handier around vehicles. I think the bigger poke of the 7.62 rd is missed at the longer ranges that our people can encounter in Afghanistan.
 
2L6331 - I will remember that s/n 'til the day I lose my marbles. Issued to me at Vernon "battle school" for GMT and BTT infantry in the reserves, summer of 1989.

I too was a toothpick-like 17 year old, who maybe massed 150lbs with my boots on. I never felt abused by the recoil? My rifle, which was about 25 years older than me, was accurate enough, and totally reliable.

It had a round that could do the job - ANY job - that a rifle needs to do. Unlike the 5.56mm poodle shooters, which leave our boys unable to hit the bad guys at all when they stonk in a few mortar bombs from 500m+ away - The AR series is a useless toy of the technogeeks, who think carrying more ammunition is a solution to under-training in marksmanship. The round is fine for gophers, but not for battle.

I fail to see how anyone could NOT love the FN FAL. How many nations issued it? 70? More? I think it is a tragedy that fashion trends in military hardware have dictated a "must have" movement towards lighter, smaller, more plasticky, disposable firearms, which are (with the admitted exception of far better sighting systems of today) good only for video games, and shooting small feral cats in the back alleys of Basra.

I think my sig line says it all, regarding my feelings!

Oh, and the M14s? An attempt to update that funny looking Garand thing. You can keep it - THAT is a funny looking, unwieldy chunk, IMHO.

Regards,

Neal
 
As others noted, it was big, heavy but you learned to love it. I was in the reserves, and our btn had the C1. When I spent summers at Gagnam (Inf School), we had the C7. The C7 was a lot easier to carry, but there was something satisfying about the heft behind the C1.

I remember one gun camp down at Yakima. We were running through the US Army's automated assault course down there. A few USMC types rolled by and we all got to chatting. It was just the range safety party (myself, a few of the other platoon commanders and our Coy CMD) and 5 or 6 Marines.

They were visibly admiring the FN's we had with us, and asked if they could try them out. We had ammo, no one was down range, so we set up an impromptu range. The Marines got down in the prone supported position, and we coached them on the need for a very firm cheek weld, as this rifle kicked. They were all "yeah, yeah, we are Marines, we know how to shoot". I smiled as I handed my charge a mag of 20, and stepped back. The company commander issued the orders, and the boyos started to shoot. Each and every one of them had their head snapped back because of a poor cheek weld, and you could see the bruises start to rise. We all started laughing, and they looked chagrined.

After a few more words about the importance of a firm cheekweld, and the but held in firm to the shoulder, the boyos went at it again. After 20, they cleared the rifles, jumped up, and all of them had big, sh|+ eating grins and welts on their right cheeks. Youl could tell they had all fallen in love.
 
2L6331 - I will remember that s/n 'til the day I lose my marbles. Issued to me at Vernon "battle school" for GMT and BTT infantry in the reserves, summer of 1989.
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I went through GMT BTT in Vernon at the same time. I wonder if we were in the same platoon?

It had a round that could do the job - ANY job - that a rifle needs to do. Unlike the 5.56mm poodle shooters, which leave our boys unable to hit the bad guys at all when they stonk in a few mortar bombs from 500m+ away - The AR series is a useless toy of the technogeeks, who think carrying more ammunition is a solution to under-training in marksmanship. The round is fine for gophers, but not for battle.
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The Calgary Service Rifle Association shoot 14.5" M4's to 500m with impressive accuracy. I'd suggest you need to re-evaluate your knowledge of the modern AR type rifle.
 
medic1050 said:
I can never own an FN and will always regret that.
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Never say never.

Like many others here, I too regret not getting an FN when I could have and yes I have also considered buying a dewat at times. Buy I live in hope common sense might one day prevail and people like us will indeed be able to legally own and shoot a C1, L1, whatever version.
 
nelly said:
It had a round that could do the job - ANY job - that a rifle needs to do. Unlike the 5.56mm poodle shooters, which leave our boys unable to hit the bad guys at all when they stonk in a few mortar bombs from 500m+ away - The AR series is a useless toy of the technogeeks, who think carrying more ammunition is a solution to under-training in marksmanship. The round is fine for gophers, but not for battle.

Neal
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I dunno, the 5.56 is a pretty fair shot at 500m.. I know, I've done it many times.. :D

Funny how many of us remember that serial number... like it's stuck there with krazy glue.. lol
 
All I can add is the pics from my kitchen table. A couple of C1s. They are fun to shoot, but thank the gawds I can't take them out of the house, or the 7-11 stores would all be victims.
 
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I was in the cadets, 3rd Field Engineering and then the Militia. It did kick a bit, but you learn to cheek it and hold hard into the shoulder. The one that I used to get my cross rifles and crown, shot really well. I shot the pointing stick at Farnham range. The SM gave me a good whack on top of the shoulders as the pointers were getting spliners on their face! I can't remember the distance (1971) but do rememeber the pain!

I also remember not to pull the trigger once the rifle was partialy dissasembled. I remember it being a pain to get the trigger assembled properly.

I have a Ishapore and a number of other 12.5 toys. I would be willing to take a C1 of anyones hands.

Regards,
Henry;)
 
031 Infantry is lots of fun. My issue rifle was 3L8987. That was 30 years ago and I still remember it. Can't even remember my telephone number sometimes. What is not to love about the C1A1 if you carried it for a living. Loved that rifle for all its faults. Kinda like a brother or sister. Love em for who they are.
RVR
 
purple said:
My first one was 7L2612. I was issued it at the old Armoured Corps School in Borden in 1965. I shot them a lot over the yrs and always enjoyed it. It was a rugged and reliable fighting rifle and easy to strip and clean.

On the range I prefer the M14 and Garand. They felt and handled better and are more accurate than the FN. I have shot a lot of quality handloads in the M14/Garand, something we never had the opportunity to do with the FN. The older DA 7.62 ball ammo, that was put up on stripper clips in the plastic bandoliers, was better than the later IVI stuff. The FN was a kicker and could be pretty intimidating for smaller folks and the females on the firing line. I think the stock design was a contributor to that.

Folks tend to favor what they were trained on. As late as 1968 I recall one of the old sweats who was dinged for a quarter guard and had never done weapons drill with the FN. He asked why we could'nt use Lee-Enfields instead.:eek: The C7 rifle was a big change again. It is a dream to shoot and a lot handier around vehicles. I think the bigger poke of the 7.62 rd is missed at the longer ranges that our people can encounter in Afghanistan.
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I feel the same way myself about the loyal old FNC1.
For the first 5 years in the infantry this was what I used, later with an SMG when I was dubbed platoon signaller in my Petawawa days. Over there, on OP duty, rifles were standard issue to us, on the Green Line. After our Cyprus tour, we were the last unit in Canada to receive the newest C6 MMG, C7 & C9s, around early 1988.
At that time the only C8s around, were issued to armoured troops.

I have spoken with RCAF veterans, who remember being issued M1 Garand rifles at RCAF radar stations and airbases from 1953-1956 in Europe. This was thier issue weapon, for them, until the FNs became standard issue.

The Garands were missed by the airmen who qualified with them. They also all agreed, that the new FN kicked more than the 30-06 calibre Garand.

Myself I prefer M1 and M14 style rifles at the rifle range.
I think even my T-26 Tanker copy in .308, kicks less than the longer barrelled FN.
Edit: One very cool prohib, now comes to mind, the Swiss STGW 57 (or the 510 series), cooler than James Bond IMHO! :cool:
STGW57.jpg
 
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Suputin said:
I went through GMT BTT in Vernon at the same time. I wonder if we were in the same platoon?


I think I was in 2 platoon? M/Cpl Paul RACKOW from RMR was my section commander... Hessan HESHAM was my fire team partner - Largish, fit, black fellow, who loved to crank his Milli Vanilli.

No, seriously...

Ah. fond memories!
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nelly said:
Yah - 5.56 might be able to HIT at 500m, but it apparently doesn't hurt much...

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA512331&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

Or so they say...
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Well, to be honest, at 500m, I wouldn't be expecting troops to lay down lethal fire. It would be pray and spray. 7.62, OR 5.56. Especially in low light conditions.

I'd be on the horn calling for some counter battery fire if there were enemy mortars at that range, or something with wings or a rotor on it. Last ditch effort (not including movement) would be to put accurate rifle fire on a mortar position at 500m unless I was in a prepared position where I had ranges all figured out and such..
Designated marksman would be handy in this scenario.


But I hear what you're saying as to the lethality of a .22 at 500m ;)
 
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