The future of the C7?

Andurp said:
Norway is having a lot of trouble with their 416's, especially in the cold. I heard they were thinking about going with C8's, but HK offered them a better deal or something. From what I've heard, that's a decision they're regretting.
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HKs customer service seems to be about as good as that of BAE.
 
johnl said:
I heard a rumour that the navy is nixing the MP5 for it's boarding party boys who carry them and going C8 aka US M4 style. If so, too bad, I love emptying the MP5 off the ass end of the boat into the ocean under 5 seconds:p
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I heard that most of them were already gone - and for those who view procurement with some cynicism, that boarding party guys were getting the infantry LBV (it doesn't really work on land, you can imagine how it works with a flotation device on), and that the decision about a sling was simple - use the ones off the MP5. In another country I wouldn't believe it, but.....
 
Worked fine when I was up there. The trick is to keep a bullet in the chamber and shoot the rifle if ever it gets frozen. EVERYTHING freezes up there so there are no miracles to be made, especially with an autoloader.


Bcviking said:
Question for you military guys , how does the C7 function in very cold arctic conditions ? I read somewhere the Swedish military did trials on the M16 and it failed lots of their cold weather tests, they then went on to adopt the Bofors AK-5 that is a Swedish made version of the FN FNC.
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I doubt we'll get another 5.56 caliber gun so no to H&K, LWRC, KAC, ARX-160, ACR etc etc

Barrel: Not sure if they'll switch to 18" barrel. Most sport shorter seem to like 18" better than 20"

Rail: probably something dumb like run full 3,6,9,12 quad rail....most folks are running to the rail screw on handguard these days I would love to see the magpul MOE (being affordable yet modular with the rail mounting capability)

Stock: At best nothing, worst some clone of crappy stock. Personally I think the stock needs battery storage as a mean to counter balance the weight on the long barrel

Grip: nothing most likely

Magazine: polymer mag?!? ie P-Mag UK seem pretty happy with their E-mag

Sight: Specter OS4 probably, DR might be issue in small number (DR vs OS4 is a big price difference)
 
Leg said:
Just had a focus group come to my unit recently. Unfortunately I didn't get to go but guys did bring up the barrel length and got blank stares in return. "We have shorter barrels on the C8, we're talking about the C7".

They don't seem to get the fact that the C7 indeed should be scrapped and 16" C8s used as the general issue rifle. I'd reprofile that barrel though, zero reason for a rifle 4" shorter to weigh more than a C7.
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The focus group did not have a wpn platform in mind, nor was there any focus on capability, it was only an ergonomics test on bullpup styled weapons.
 
Andurp said:
Norway is having a lot of trouble with their 416's, especially in the cold. I heard they were thinking about going with C8's, but HK offered them a better deal or something. From what I've heard, that's a decision they're regretting.
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Partly true. According to a Norweigen soldier who posts in another forum I frequent, the problems came from the AGR and poor maintence on th soldiers part (if I remember correctly). They have since updated their rifle maintenance procedures and they rifles are apparently running fine. I'll look for the original post.
 
That would be the one. 16" barrel on a carbine package. 14" ala M4 gives away too much terminal ballistics. The 16" gives most of the punch of a 20" tube in a manageable size. Lose the triad too. keep gadgets closer to the breach end if possible.
woodchopper said:
don't plan on any big changes, were not changing ammo or platform.

I think the next step will be C8A3 for everyone (or perhaps an A4, but 16"ish barrel)
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nza said:
can I play? they might make the flattop rail into industry spec?
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Why??? The Canadian rail is better. more mounting positions (14 vs. 13) and you have a front sight block commonality between all models, unlike the M16 series which requires the supply system to maintain two heights (standard and F height).
 
brnoshooter said:
Something in the SIG 550 line would be so much better. Can't stand the C-7 myself.
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Spoken like someone who has never had to carry a SIG 55X on a patrol.

The Sig weighs almost twice as much as an AR and has had problems with the guide rods breaking in them on full-auto fire.

EPIC FAIL.

Great range guns though.
 
cansoldier45 said:
The old guard who insisted on a bbl long enough for the current rifle drill manuals are retiring and the new operators are much more practical. A lot depends on who the LCMM will be.

But unfortunately the current LCMM has had a direct influence on any future LCMM and in my experience most LCMM's DO NOT listen to operators, especially 421 small arms. The list for that particular position is small and unless the guy has spent time at DHTC, he will be of the same ilk as the current one(s).

Most senior 421 techs are full of themselves and are very intimidated when anyone of another trade shows any knowledge of "their specialty", especially a mere 031.

CS45

oh ya, and 95% of the gun mechs I met in my career didn't even like guns
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Ah, LCMMs... what a fun bunch of people.

I'll tell you the secret to get them into action. Put in a UCR (Unsatisfactory Condition Report) Fill it out and describe the deficiencies with the item. This will go straight to the LCMMs desk... he HAS to respond to it (may just be a thanks for your input), and files it away... the trick is get as many of your people (from a variety of units will help) to submit one of these as possible. Each one should describe (in their own words) the same issues. When the LCMM gets a large quantity of these on his desk he has no choice but to launch an investigation to action these complaints... and that, my friends, is how you launch an LCMM into action. Has worked every time for me.

BB.
 
Claven2 said:
Spoken like someone who has never had to carry a SIG 55X on a patrol.

The Sig weighs almost twice as much as an AR and has had problems with the guide rods breaking in them on full-auto fire.

EPIC FAIL.

Great range guns though.
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guide rods ? do you mean op rod ? The carbine versions with a shorter gas system and no bipod weigh not much more than a AR type rifle .. I find it hard to believe the Swiss would adopt a gun that breaks under full auto fire ? The SIG family of rifles are regarded by experts world wide as the most accurate and durable assault rifle out there ..
i would be willing to bet a SIG 550 would beat a M16/ C7 an any torture test given ... I admit the gun is a bit over built but if i had to pick one gun the 550 or C7 it would be a SIG because the service life is way longer .. I hate AR uppers for the fact the T handle locking notch wears out then you have the handle hitting you nose while firing , i take steel over aluminum any day.. Well you call this guys comment a EPIC FAIL ?? whens the last time you served in the military and went on patrol ?? in your living room playing COD?
 
Bcviking said:
guide rods ? do you mean op rod ? The carbine versions with a shorter gas system and no bipod weigh not much more than a AR type rifle .. I find it hard to believe the Swiss would adopt a gun that breaks under full auto fire ? The SIG family of rifles are regarded by experts world wide as the most accurate and durable assault rifle out there ..
i would be willing to bet a SIG 550 would beat a M16/ C7 an any torture test given ... I admit the gun is a bit over built but if i had to pick one gun the 550 or C7 it would be a SIG because the service life is way longer .. I hate AR uppers for the fact the T handle locking notch wears out then you have the handle hitting you nose while firing , i take steel over aluminum any day.. Well you call this guys comment a EPIC FAIL ?? when the last time you served in the military and went on patrol ?? in your living room playing COD?
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Sig rifles had very real problems in Iraq with spring guide rods failing and causing the weapon to fail in FA fire. It was a major subject of discussion for all the guys working there at the time, the response to the issue wasn't lightning fast either.
 
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