The hierarchy of 3-20 power long range precision scopes.

X

xingyc

Regular
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Location
GTA, Ontario
As a beginner practical precision shooter. I find the optic market very confusing, there isn't any standardized rating for the low light optic performance. I'm hoping some veteran shooters here can offer insight on the scopes; to ensure we are talking about the same thing, the scopes discussed here all with power range of 3-20, first focal plane, and price tag over $1700. No fixed(10 power), ultra high power scopes(5-25, 5 power is too high for hunting, and the extra weight is not desirable) or budget scopes.

1500 dollar isn't pocket change, I don't wanna gamble on an budget scope.
3-20 power is versatile, good out to 1000m, and you can still use it for hunting. Yes, a 10 power scope can take a good rifle out to 1000m, but if the target isn't painted white/red, I find it's hard to pick up the target at long range with a 'low' power scope.
Price tag over $1700, eliminates the possibility of the scope not tracking accurately, or extreme inferior glass/coating.



with all the parameter set, here are the scopes currently available on the market.

Bushnell DMR II, 3.5-21 x50, $2000
Leupold Mark 5, 3.6-18 x44, $2900
Leupold Mark 6 3-18 x44 $3100
Nightforce ATAC, 4-16 x50F1, $3300
Minox ZP5, 3-15 ×50 $3800
Vortex Razor II, 3-18 x50, $3900
Kahles K318i, 3.5-18 x50 $4000
US Optics B17, 3.2-17 x50, $3300-4300
S&B ultra bright, 4-16 x56, $4200
S&B PMII, 3-20 x50, $3900+
Tangent Theta, 3-15 x50, $4200-5500?

I do not guarantee the prices are accurate market price, some price was converted from US dollar with 1.3 exchange rate. Please comment if I miss any scopes.


Seems like the only option is to do the test myself. But we are going to need some generous CGNers' help, if you are willing to share your scope for an optical test, even if your scope isn't listed (eg. S&B PMII 5-25), please message me. If we get enough people, we can do the test that benefits the whole community.

Here is the basic idea of how the scopes are going to be tested.
ideally, the test will take place in a large room (community gym?? barn??) with no windows. Scopes will be set at one end of the room, an eye exam chart will be set at the opposite side of the room. lighting will be provided by full spectrum lights (probably light on red spectrum mimics dusk and dawn more closely) on top of the scopes, and an adjustable switch is used for tuning the brightness. at an arbitrary low light setting, seasoned shooters will look through the scopes(covered by paper or cloth), and give scores to the scopes base on the eye exam chart test.


Please rank these scopes base on the LOW LIGHT OPTICS CLARITY, and ADVANCE FEATURES (zero lock turret, Tremer 3 reticle, field of view, power range, weight, etc...)
if you can give them a score please do, optic clarity-65%, advance features-35%, total 100%.
I'm hoping to hear from someone who tested 2 or more listed scope side by side. but any non bias input and experiences are welcome.


currently I'm using a Bushnell DMR IIi and a $200 Celestron spotting scope 20-60 power. I have zero experience with other precision scopes. under low light condition, the Celestron spotting scope is much brighter and colorful than the Bushnell DMR IIi. Even with the size difference, I find it very ironic. I should've taken off the sunshade from the rifle scope to improve brightness. The G3 Bushnell reticle is pretty good, the locking windage turret is nice to have, but the weight of the scope is too much.
Optic clarity-49%, advance features-23%. Total-72%



This post is inspired by PRB's article, Precision Rifle Blog has a awesome test and article on some older scopes, really looking forward to see a new test/post. the link to their article: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/
 
Last edited:
J996 said:
If your goal from that list is utmost clarity in low light you want S&B. The end.
Click to expand...

I'm just getting into the long range game. But it is very ironic that a $200 spotting scope is MUCH more clear and colorful than my $2000 scope. my goal is not just the optic clarity. 35%-features.

Bushnell DMR is $2000, an average Schmidt & Bender is $4000. that's a $2000 (100%) difference, I can't help to wonder how much better is the S&B. Consumers deserve to be informed. why spend extra $2000 just because some salesman/fanboy say it is better. People need to know how much better is a $4000 glass, so we can decide if it is worth the price. I am not angry or trying to start a argument with you. Just stating a quantifiable comparison is needed.

Currently, Bushnell fits my need, both price and performance wise. I'm just curious about the current optic market.
 
Briefly had a SB 4-16 UB and it was a very nice scope. Very useful mag range. The size is nice and the turrets were good.

Will you make more hits than with the Bushy? No, you wont, but it is nice to have the good stuff.

Not sure why you wouldnt just go 5-25 as well. I love my Minox scopes.
 
xingyc said:
I'm just getting into the long range game. But it is very ironic that a $200 spotting scope is MUCH more clear and colorful than my $2000 scope. my goal is not just the optic clarity. 35%-features.

Bushnell DMR is $2000, an average Schmidt & Bender is $4000. that's a $2000 (100%) difference, I can't help to wonder how much better is the S&B. Consumers deserve to be informed. why spend extra $2000 just because some salesman/fanboy say it is better. People need to know how much better is a $4000 glass, so we can decide if it is worth the price. I am not angry or trying to start a argument with you. Just stating a quantifiable comparison is needed.

Currently, Bushnell fits my need, both price and performance wise. I'm just curious about the current optic market.
Click to expand...

I have a Bushy HDMR as well as an S&B PMII. In oder for you to understand the difference, you have to get behind these scopes and use them. Getting out and making friends at your local range is the best way to do this.

They will both get the job done and the HDMR is the best bang for the buck and is a great scope. That said, I will pick the PMII over it every time.

If you are on a budget, go for the HDMR it is a great scope. If you have money to burn, S&B, TT, treat yourself.
 
Last edited:
There isn't really a quantifiable measure for how much "better" one scope is than another. I have 2 HDMR2s and 2 Leupold Mk5 5-25s and to my eye, the glass on the Leupold's is better and the eyebox is more generous at the top end. Like others have said, you'll need to get behind a few of these scopes and have a look for yourself.

Also, a spotting scope should pretty much always be brighter than a scope given the much larger objective lens. It's also a lot less expensive to manufacture a spotting scope given the lack of any internal erector mechanism like a scope has.
 
xingyc said:
I'm just getting into the long range game. But it is very ironic that a $200 spotting scope is MUCH more clear and colorful than my $2000 scope. my goal is not just the optic clarity. 35%-features.
Click to expand...

There are a few things going on. You do notice the size of the objective on your spotting scope vs your rifle scope right? You are also running your rifle scope at the top of its range and the spotting scope at the bottom if you're trying to measure clarity at equal power. More colourful isn't necessarily a good thing.
 
To my eye the razor 2, s&b, NF ATACR are all fairly equal in llens quality. The hdmr 2 is also fairly decent but not as nice as the above. Between those I would just choose the features and reticles you like. I personally feel s&b is overpriced and I own a few.

I own all of the above and I agree the minox is a great scope and one that takes the best features of all those.
 
Last edited:
rugbydave said:
There isn't really a quantifiable measure for how much "better" one scope is than another. I have 2 HDMR2s and 2 Leupold Mk5 5-25s and to my eye, the glass on the Leupold's is better and the eyebox is more generous at the top end. Like others have said, you'll need to get behind a few of these scopes and have a look for yourself.

Also, a spotting scope should pretty much always be brighter than a scope given the much larger objective lens. It's also a lot less expensive to manufacture a spotting scope given the lack of any internal erector mechanism like a scope has.
Click to expand...


original post has been updated, quantifiable test method is added. are you interest in the optical test?

I know rifle scopes is more robust, can with stand shocks, have adjustments, and the spotting scope's objective lens is 2 times larger. but price of spotting scope is only 10%!! of the Bushnell DMR II. I though the clarity would be similar.
 
Last edited:
I've only ever looked through three scopes. Two were mine, an SWFA fixed 10x, and an S&B PMII 5-25. the third was a Nikon belonging to a friend.
Looking through the Nikon compared to the SWFA, I thought it was broken. Apprarebly not.
Looking through the S&B at 25 times was just as good (if not marginally better) as the SWFA at 10 times.
I've had more people look through my glass than I can count, and they're all assounded by the clarity of both. But you gotta do the looking.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom