The Infidel - update w first group

Wall Banger

and Waderow my thoughts exactly what you spoke of in regards to pricing.

I have noticed that with Canadian made products for the firearms industry. Yes it is NICE to have a Canadian made product and not having to deal with all the BS of bringing into Canada but it should be at a fair market value. A FAIR CANADIAN MARKET VALUE with none of the US crap brought into the equation.

I have a US based action on its way up that I was lucky enough to get at almost par on the dollar. It was configured to the options I wanted. This action is proven and one of the hottest on the market. Match report equipment lists show that and BR shooters love seeing equipment lists.

I have no doubt it is going to be a decent product but time will tell the tale.
 
Free enterprise

The seller sets the price. The buyer chooses to pay it.

Rick is in fact running a business, not a public service. There will be enough customers who are willing to pay for this action to justify the price. Some of you will not be among them.
 
Seafury you are correct. Any business has the right to put his prices to whatever limit he wants. Rick I understand and I know that every business says and believes that their product is better than the next fella so the prices reflect that. Surgeon would say the same thing. So does any custom action manufacturer on the planet. This is not a flame at all Rick, please don't take it as such. Also the export fees and permits cannot be taken into acct here as there is no export or import being done. Also you are charging Canadian dollars to Canadians so I don't understand what exchange has to do here. That just isn't a fair statement. Sorry if I offended anyone.
 
I demand that there be a government sponsored initiative that will subsidize the cost of a Canadian made action for persons over 65 who are Canadian citizens.
 
wow... just wow.

as soon as I win the lottery I'll mail you the ticket, you can then mail me everything you make.
 
waderow said:
not knocking your action, or anything about you. your reputation is top notch, and I will likely one day buy a gun from you.

my question is about your pricing. you commented about export fees etc. why does that have any bearing on what you sell your non-imported components? that seems like a money grab to me, as we have few alternatives.

apple A costs $1000 in the states, and costs $500 to make in the USA
the same apple costs $500 to make in Canada, but the retailer here sells it for $1300 because he knows that for I to buy the apple and import it, I need to pay a couple hundred in exporting, and I have to wait a few weeks. That is greed. I find retailers here set their pricing on what it costs to import from USA, and less on what is a fair market margin.
Click to expand...

one way to look at it is like this:

company A (in the USA) market's to a population that is roughly 8 times the size of company B(which is canadian).

also, the USA has less stringent gun laws, so there are probably considerably more gun owners per capita than canada, which would make the market that much larger for company A.

so company A will more than likely sell roughly 8 to ? times as many items as company B, so company A can spread out the cost of production and r&d over a wider number of products, hence making the product cheaper.

btw, that is a schnazzy looking action rick:)

what kind of velocity and muzzle blast are you getting with that short barrel:p
 
Rick,

You say your action will have tighter clearances than BAT and Surgeon, that is a pretty bold statement, care to tell us what BAT and Surgeon have for clearance is and what your action is?
 
What are you talking about,, no good deed goes unpunished? I can't ask a question that has to do with machining, just because it was built in Canada?? oh well not worth my time anyway, I hope the best for ATR, and maybe we will see the actions going south instead of north once the news hits the States of the superior action.
 
noneck180 said:
what are you talking about,, no good deed goes unpunished? I can't ask a question that has to do with machining, just because it was built in canada?? Oh well not worth my time anyway, i hope the best for atr, and maybe we will see the actions going south instead of north once the news hits the states of the superior action.
Click to expand...

just for the record, i have not said anything to do with price.
 
waderow said:
company A and USA might sell less actually. How many people in Canada are marketing high end custom milled actions for tactical rifles here? Compare that to USA.... bigger market, sure. much more competition, definitely. And yes, its a nice action.
Click to expand...

hehehe, i didn't realize that i was generalizing all US action manufacturer's into one group while i was typing it, whoops:redface:

now first off, i feel i should note that i'm not a business owner, nor do i even have an inkling of how a business runs or how the market works, so take this with a grain of sand, as i'm just trying to state how i feel the system operates.

none the less, some quick google research shows that there are roughly 52 million gun owners in the US, while Canada shows almost 2 million, thats 26:1.

now lets assume that 1% of gun owners buy custom actions.

even if there are 10 major companies competing for the US market of custom actions(are there more or less?) each one in theory would still average 52,000customers to spread out the cost of manufacturing on, while that single Canadian manufacturer would have a market of just 20,000.

from there one would have to factor in the cost of machine's and material, most of which would probably have to come from the USA, and cost more to the canadian buyer than the the american one due to the dollar value(which is finally close to par)

and on top of all that, the canadian company will probably less than the said 20,000 since alot of the american made actions are imported into canada already, so in reality, the canadian company has such a small market share to spread the costs out on, i'm surprised rick even did it in the first place:eek:

i think a big congratulations is in order for ATR for even attempting to do this:)
 
noneck180 said:
What are you talking about,, no good deed goes unpunished? I can't ask a question that has to do with machining, just because it was built in Canada?? oh well not worth my time anyway, I hope the best for ATR, and maybe we will see the actions going south instead of north once the news hits the States of the superior action.
Click to expand...

You need to calm down bro, he wasn't even talking to you.
 
waderow said:
"free enterprise" with countless government controls making a few able to profit due to convoluted BS
As the market up here grows, there will be wise business men that do not gouge their clients, and who offer a nice balance of quality, service, and price. These will be the ones who will survive.
Click to expand...

Hey any guy who likes women and beer should have no problem flipping the bill for something he actually gets to keep.

First of all I understood the price to be an early estimate. It is not carved in stone and I'm sure it will be fine tuned. Perhaps it will be higher. It's rather a difficult task to know now what each action will cost to build until the process is finalized. A smart guy starts high and adjusts accordingly as he gets closer to the real figure.

Secondly this is a custom shop and the products I see there are very well made. It is a niche marketplace for sure. I'm sure Norinco will soon have an inexpensive tactical rifle for the masses that is on par with the finest available. I look forward to the threads.

I purchased a Ken Farrel 20 MOA base for my 700SA and compared it to a base that Rick made. The price is about the same but there is no comparison in quality(design). ATR's base should be half as much using the logic I am seeing here. I would argue the KF base should be half of ATR's. In the end my ATR base will be double because I wasted my money the first time around on something I no longer want.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom