The Kimber 84M

[archie_james_c]

I'd like to see how a $2200 Cooper Excalibur would shoot when slimmed down to the weight of a Kimber.
Problem is, even at that price, it may still have the budget bluing with a sh*tty Bell and Carlson stock.

How dare you speak truth.

 

[rem338win]

I think the Kimber manages to follow the ideal of the Rifles Inc and NULA in a production rifle with CRF to boot. I like them, but like Bearkilr, my name is rem338win, and I am a rifle-a-holic with a low attent.... birds! There's a bird out my window....

 

[1899]

I'd like to see how a $2200 Cooper Excalibur would shoot when slimmed down to the weight of a Kimber.
Problem is, even at that price, it may still have the budget bluing with a sh*tty Bell and Carlson stock.

A $2000 Model 54 Classic is guaranteed to shoot 1/2" at 100 yards and weighs 6.5lbs, or a little more than 1/2lb more than an 84M.

Have you ever heard of any complaints regarding the accuracy or function of a Cooper?

 

[rem338win]

Theres more ### stuffed into that gun than a 6 hour gang bang video! Im entirely jealous.

I neither support or agree with this or any comment made by this individual, as I will deny I ever knew him in case I one day run for POTUS as any affiliation with this individual or his comments will make you look, well, like an idiot.

 

[rem338win]

A $2000 Model 54 Classic is guaranteed to shoot 1/2" at 100 yards and weighs 6.5lbs, or a little more than 1/2lb more than an 84M.

Have you ever heard of any complaints regarding the accuracy or function of a Cooper?

In regards to accuracy, no. But apples to apples, Exaliber to Montana the Kimber is a pound lighter with a far better stock and is stainless. If the Kimber will shoot a game bullet into 1" I would take it.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

A $2000 Model 54 Classic is guaranteed to shoot 1/2" at 100 yards and weighs 6.5lbs, or a little more than 1/2lb more than an 84M.

Have you ever heard of any complaints regarding the accuracy or function of a Cooper?

When lightweight is the name of the game 8oz's is a huge deal.
84m's were designed around the .308 cartridge to be the bare mininum in weight and dimension.
If you don't get it...you probably never will and I could really care less, myself and other lightweight enthusiasts will continue to look for ways to shed that last ounce.
God bless all you folks who won't try or buy a Kimber. You keep the prices down and the availability up and I surely thank you for it.

 

[1899]

When lightweight is the name of the game 8oz's is a huge deal!
If you don't get it...you never will.
84m's were designed around the .308 cartridge to be the bare mininum in weight.
God bless all you folks who won't try or buy a Kimber. You keep the prices down and the availability up and I surely thank you for it.

Light weight is great...but not at any cost...

 

[rem338win]

And that right there is what worries me.

Light weight is great...but not at any cost...

Ok, I need to speak on that, I have had similar satisfaction with other brands including Remington and Winchester. I am a peculiar (stop it right there) fellow when it comes to what I want out of a rifle.

And what cost aren't you willing to give up? I will give up a pound of weight to go from a 0.5 MOA to 1 MOA. Especially when I gain quality components. I think that Kimber has quality components, and Cooper provide more attention to the manner in which it is assembled. That is why the Cooper is $800 more. If the Cooper used a better than average stock, and started making their rifle with all SS components is would cost as much as a NULA or a Rifles Inc. And then Cooper would get bypassed to get the NULA. Or a Winchester Rifles Inc.

It is all perspective.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Ok, I need to speak on that, I have had similar satisfaction with other brands including Remington and Winchester. I am a peculiar (stop it right there) fellow when it comes to what I want out of a rifle.

And what cost aren't you willing to give up? I will give up a pound of weight to go from a 0.5 MOA to 1 MOA. Especially when I gain quality components. I think that Kimber has quality components, and Cooper provide more attention to the manner in which it is assembled. That is why the Cooper is $800 more. If the Cooper used a better than average stock, and started making their rifle with all SS components is would cost as much as a NULA or a Rifles Inc. And then Cooper would get bypassed to get the NULA. Or a Winchester Rifles Inc.

It is all perspective.

I'm sure the Cooper is most fantastic, and I'm certainly not brand loyal.
We are talking factory ultralight rifles here, and Cooper doesn't even step up to the plate.
I've always had a soft spot for the Model 7 {check mine out in the ruger compact thread} but as a factory offering I don't care for the 20" barrel as compared to the 22" on an 84M.
If you start talking customs then we head in a whole other direction, but we're not.

And while I hate to say it, the tikka T3 lite is more relevant in the lightweight debate than the Cooper.
By all means enjoy your Coopers, but they will be overlooked as a true factory lightweight by almost anyone hunting hard in the mountains.

 

[1899]

Ok, I need to speak on that, I have had similar satisfaction with other brands including Remington and Winchester. I am a peculiar (stop it right there) fellow when it comes to what I want out of a rifle.

And what cost aren't you willing to give up? I will give up a pound of weight to go from a 0.5 MOA to 1 MOA. Especially when I gain quality components. I think that Kimber has quality components, and Cooper provide more attention to the manner in which it is assembled. That is why the Cooper is $800 more. If the Cooper used a better than average stock, and started making their rifle with all SS components is would cost as much as a NULA or a Rifles Inc. And then Cooper would get bypassed to get the NULA. Or a Winchester Rifles Inc.

It is all perspective.

I've been waiting to pull the trigger on a new rifle and I like the Kimber...but...owners and previous owners seem to be quite divided on them. As per the previous post "2 were lemons, 3 were great". There is also a huge volume of complaints on the intraweb.

I have yet to hear of a person complain about issues with a Cooper. My problem is that if I buy a Kimber, and it is a POS, then I am not the kind of person to try and flog it onto someone else in the EE.

I do admit that the Kimber looks mighty fine, and the light weight is appealing.

 

[archie_james_c]

I neither support or agree with this or any comment made by this individual, as I will deny I ever knew him in case I one day run for POTUS as any affiliation with this individual or his comments will make you look, well, like an idiot.

Embrace the stupidity.

And while I hate to say it, the tikka T3 lite is more relevant in the lightweight debate than the Cooper.
By all means enjoy your Coopers, but they will be overlooked as a true factory lightweight by almost anyone hunting hard in the mountains.

Its true, the T3 is superior in all aspects to the above mentioned guns.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

I've been waiting to pull the trigger on a new rifle and I like the Kimber...but...owners and previous owners seem to be quite divided on them. As per the previous post "2 were lemons, 3 were great". There is also a huge volume of complaints on the intraweb.

I have yet to hear of a person complain about issues with a Cooper. My problem is that if I buy a Kimber, and it is a POS, then I am not the kind of person to try and flog it onto someone else in the EE.

I do admit that the Kimber looks mighty fine, and the light weight is appealing.

Here's a shocker for you 1899, I have gone 1 for 2 with Kimber.
My only problem rifle was an early production Montana in 7-08 that suffered sporadic mis-fires. I was close to narrowing down the problem and it required a small amount of machining of the firing pin shoulder. I never pursued it as I had other projects on the go at the time, and I sold it on the EE this summer with full disclosure of the issues.
I noticed the same rifle sold on the EE recently by the most reputable member I sold it to...fixed!

Something to keep in mind is that the Korth group has recently announced it will be handling any Kimber warranty work.
I've been in bed with Kimbers for about 5 years now and there was no warranty honored in Canada at that time.
I see your in PG, I'm in the South-Cariboo right near the highway and you're more than welcome to stop in and check out my Kimber.

 

[bearkilr]

I've been waiting to pull the trigger on a new rifle and I like the Kimber...but...owners and previous owners seem to be quite divided on them. As per the previous post "2 were lemons, 3 were great". There is also a huge volume of complaints on the intraweb.

I have yet to hear of a person complain about issues with a Cooper. My problem is that if I buy a Kimber, and it is a POS, then I am not the kind of person to try and flog it onto someone else in the EE.

I do admit that the Kimber looks mighty fine, and the light weight is appealing.

I've had a Cooper Excalibur in 270. There were a few things that bugged me about this $2200+ rifle:
-single stack magazine is there for slick feeding, nothing else. 3 rounds is pretty pi$$ poor capacity for a 270. Hard to load mag also,I found.
- the safety feels incredibly cheap and moves far too easily
- the stock is junk.....period. Heavy and clunky nearly befitting a benchrest rifle and probably costs Cooper less than $100 from B&C.
- finish marred very easily. A gun of this price should have a better finish.

I know I'm being overly critical, but IMO a $2200 rifle should be better. Really, the only thing they have going for them is the fact they're available insome pretty cool calibers. They have nice wood as well, but it ain't free.

A $2000 Model 54 Classic is guaranteed to shoot 1/2" at 100 yards and weighs 6.5lbs, or a little more than 1/2lb more than an 84M.

You did know that the little test target they include was shot at 50 yards,right?

 

[crazy_davey]

the Korth group has recently announced it will be handling any Kimber warranty work.

That was the deciding factor for the one I just bought. We did pick up a 270WSM Montana for my father before the 2010 sheep season and it had no issues to speak of and shot quite well with factory loads.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

I've been waiting to pull the trigger on a new rifle and I like the Kimber...but...owners and previous owners seem to be quite divided on them. As per the previous post "2 were lemons, 3 were great". There is also a huge volume of complaints on the intraweb.

I have yet to hear of a person complain about issues with a Cooper. My problem is that if I buy a Kimber, and it is a POS, then I am not the kind of person to try and flog it onto someone else in the EE.

I do admit that the Kimber looks mighty fine, and the light weight is appealing.

If the lightest production rifle in wood is your animal, An 84M or 84L is your only choice. I will not even begin to consider the new savages until they are put on the scale, Kimber is one of the only manufacturers who list damn close to the true weight of each of their rifles in their respective calibers, not a one size fits all number.

If you're not after a wood stock and your thinking Montana and your still scared of QC issues, watch the EE for a custom.
I've seen custom model sevens in Mcmillan stocks and other goodies hovering around the same cost as a new Montana all-in.
As I stated earlier...leave the Montanas for me!

 

[1899]

Here's a shocker for you 1899, I have gone 1 for 2 with Kimber.
My only problem rifle was an early production Montana in 7-08 that suffered sporadic mis-fires. I was close to narrowing down the problem and it required a small amount of machining of the firing pin shoulder. I never pursued it as I had other projects on the go at the time, and I sold it on the EE this summer with full disclosure of the issues.
I noticed the same rifle sold on the EE recently by the most reputable member I sold it to...fixed!

Something to keep in mind is that the Korth group has recently announced it will be handling any Kimber warranty work.
I've been in bed with Kimbers for about 5 years now and there was no warranty honored in Canada at that time.
I see your in PG, I'm in the South-Cariboo right near the highway and you're more than welcome to stop in and check out my Kimber.


I was close to narrowing down the problem

Thanks for the offer.

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

I've had a Cooper Excalibur in 270. There were a few things that bugged me about this $2200+ rifle:
-single stack magazine is there for slick feeding, nothing else. 3 rounds is pretty pi$$ poor capacity for a 270. Hard to load mag also,I found.
- the safety feels incredibly cheap and moves far too easily
- the stock is junk.....period. Heavy and clunky nearly befitting a benchrest rifle and probably costs Cooper less than $100 from B&C.
- finish marred very easily. A gun of this price should have a better finish.

I know I'm being overly critical, but IMO a $2200 rifle should be better.

Always nice to hear from folks with first-hand experience that aren't blinded by brand-loyalty. Thanks for sharing the issues you experienced.

With some folks the higher priced the item, the harder it is to accept and admit shortcomings...and it hurts everybody in the end.
I'm no different than most nutz on here, I've owned many firearms some good, bad and ugly. I'll call it how I see it and admire someone who does the same.
When I was growing-up my dad was that dyed in the wool "Ford-guy".
I followed along the same path for alot of years.
When I first decided to move out of the Lower Mainland I had to take a job at Kal-tire.
I started to work with cars and trucks of every make and description, and it really opened my eyes as to what was quality and what was junk and in all honesty even high-end vehicles had their issues.
I started to buy into "first-hand experience" and less into hype.
On occasion you just get stung despite your best efforts.

 

[1899]

I've had a Cooper Excalibur in 270. There were a few things that bugged me about this $2200+ rifle:
-single stack magazine is there for slick feeding, nothing else. 3 rounds is pretty pi$$ poor capacity for a 270. Hard to load mag also,I found.
- the safety feels incredibly cheap and moves far too easily
- the stock is junk.....period. Heavy and clunky nearly befitting a benchrest rifle and probably costs Cooper less than $100 from B&C.
- finish marred very easily. A gun of this price should have a better finish.

I know I'm being overly critical, but IMO a $2200 rifle should be better. Really, the only thing they have going for them is the fact they're available insome pretty cool calibers. They have nice wood as well, but it ain't free.

You did know that the little test target they include was shot at 50 yards,right?

Interesting about the finish. I would only be interested in the wood stock anyways, and I don't need it to be fancy.

Regarding the guarantee, straight from their website:

Our Accuracy Guarantee:
All rimfires are guaranteed to shoot 1/4" groups at 50 yards with match grade ammo. All centerfires are guaranteed to shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards with hand-loaded match grade ammo.

 

[shortaction]

I have had 2 Kimbers - both wood stocked, classics. One in 308win and the other was 300WSM. Both shot extremely well MOA and better. No complaints about either, other than they aren't available with a Detachable Mag which was ultimately the reason I sold both.

 

[bearkilr]

Regarding the guarantee, straight from their website:

I don't want to turn this into a Cooper bashing thread as they are nice rifles but I'll just say that their accuracy guarantee is a bit misleading. The little target included with my 270 was shot with 135gr Sierra Match Kings at under 50 yards indoors with a 36x Leupold with no distance given. I realize they give a 1/2" at 100 yard guarantee with match grade bullets but............ well, you get my drift. Cooper doesn't readily disclose the distance they fire their test targets at, but it's out there on the web. rather than give the distance, I would assume they're hoping most consumers believe this to be a 100 yard target and they've met or exceeded their guarantee.

I like Barnes TSX and TTSX. I guess they don't qualify for the guarantee.