The Legal Answer to using quick change barrel systems at the range (ACR 18.5 to 12.5)

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Caleb314 said:
If you have a non resctricted barrel on it why would they check the registery for something that wont be there? So its pretty much non resctricted unless you have a super uptight and thorough police officer.
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you know what an ACR looks like right? that in itself brings about a red flag when a police officer sees one.
 
The Lower is what deems it restricted so once it is registered as such that's what it will be...EVERYWHERE
Keep it non restricted...when you are at an approved range you are a member of then, ONLY then, swap out the barrel and ONLY use it there.
When leaving the range, then move it and put back the 18.5"
 
Brian46 said:
not on an ACR
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True as the ACR and XCR go by the barrel length...but the S/N would be registered as restricted with the shorter barrel.
So if its 18.5" and NON restricted, would it be deemed illegal to swap it out at at an approved range you are a member of and only use it there?
Then set it up back to the 18.5" before leaving that range?
 
ogradyrw said:
The Lower is what deems it restricted so once it is registered as such that's what it will be...EVERYWHERE
Keep it non restricted...when you are at an approved range you are a member of then, ONLY then, swap out the barrel and ONLY use it there.
When leaving the range, then move it and put back the 18.5"
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You cannot change the classification of a firearm from non-restricted to restricted at the gun range, use the firearm, then change it back when its time to leave.
This advice is clearly breaking our current laws.

Read the first post, I asked that.

Myself - "Can I drive to a restricted approved gun range with the 18.5 inch configuration, with no registration, then at the range, put on a 12.5" barrel and use it? "

CFO- "No you cannot, once you change the classification of a firearm to restricted, it must be stored until it is registered. You have 30 days to change registration."
 
ogradyrw said:
True as the ACR and XCR go by the barrel length...but the S/N would be registered as restricted with the shorter barrel.
So if its 18.5" and NON restricted, would it be deemed illegal to swap it out at at an approved range you are a member of and only use it there?
Then set it up back to the 18.5" before leaving that range?
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yes illegal
 
Sounds like the law is at odds with itself again.

A gun cannot be restricted and non-restricted. Regardless of what it is registered as, truly it will fall to the characteristics of the gun in court.

Even if "registered" as restricted, if the features of the gun comply with the non-restricted variables, how can it be proven in court that the gun is still restricted?

Registering a gun does not make it restricted. The features of the gun make it so.

Oddly, if the gun is registered, and you change it to non-restricted, are the records of its registration now not automatically illegal for the CFO to possess?
 
In short, they've said...

A gun is registered because it is restricted.

A gun is not restricted because it is registered.

Everyone should call, get a CFO to answer and record the conversation. Or at the very least have enough people to call to have a clarification bulletin release, like bulletin 72 for magazines.

In writing or audio recorded is prefered over 3rd hand recollection.
 
mmattockx said:
Putting a longer barrel on your rifle doesn't magically change its classification with the CFC. To reclassify and de-register that rifle you would need to install the long barrel, have it verified and have the verifier send the paperwork in to the CFC. Eventually they will get back to you and confirm you are now the owner of a non-restricted rifle. This is how gunsmiths have to do it when they convert a restricted over to non-restricted or a prohib to restricted (in the case of a 12.6 handgun). These rules don't change for you just because you want them to, re-classifications must be verified and submitted for approval.

What you are proposing to do is completely illegal and will get you busted if you get checked out.


Mark
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^ This is what I currently do.

This will be the second winter that I have registered my Tavor with the CFC in November when I install my 15" barrel, then unregister it in April-May the next year.

OPs point is the most generous interpretation of how non-restricted rifles are "unregistered." It certainly helps having this from the CFO. But its not a guarantee.

I've always waited the 30 days to get my confirmation that the 18.5" verified Tavor has been erased from the system each time.

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fenceline said:
Sounds like the law is at odds with itself again.
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no.

Oddly, if the gun is registered, and you change it to non-restricted, are the records of its registration now not automatically illegal for the CFO to possess?
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If you change the gun from restricted to non, a verifier provides the CFC with the required info and it is then removed from the registry.

If you take a non restricted and convert it to restricted you have 30 day grace to niotify the CFC and get the gun registered. Now you yourself swapping the barrels start the "reclassification" process and during this "reclassification" process the firearm must remain in storage till the proper paperwork is obtained from the CFC for your now restricted firearm hence why taking it to the range and swapping barrels is not legal
 
I just got off the phone with the RCMP firearms classification department (or whatever they call themselves as I was forwarded to them from the Alberta CFO) and was told that if you have a restricted firearm nothing you do changes that classification until it has been to a verifier and the information has been submitted to the RCMP lab. If you put an 18.5 inch barrel on it is still restricted until they get the documentation saying otherwise by the verifier.
You also can not put a restricted length barrel back onto your rifle once it is re-classed as non restricted without having it re-classed again to restricted before you leave your home with it other than to take it to the verifier to have it inspected.
So legally you can not slip the short barrel back on at the range. You can not take your new 18.5 inch barrel out in the bush until it has been verified and re-classed. You can however put an 18.5 inch on a restricted classed rifle and go to the range with it as it is still restricted until re-classed.

I also wrote them a letter so that I get a response in writing which I will post as soon as I get it.
 
"...not illegal to use a restricted on crown land..." Rubbish. You cannot shoot a restricted firearm anywhere but an approved range.
That clerk at ONTARIO's CPFO is full of excrement. You get stopped and the copper checks, you're busted. I doubt having anything in writing would matter until you've spent 50 grand on a lawyer either. Get it in writing anyway though.
"...the 18.5" barrel would stop him from..." No it wouldn't. If the cop decided to check, for no reason he would.
 
Brian46 said:
no.

If you change the gun from restricted to non, a verifier provides the CFC with the required info and it is then removed from the registry.

If you take a non restricted and convert it to restricted you have 30 day grace to niotify the CFC and get the gun registered. Now you yourself swapping the barrels start the "reclassification" process and during this "reclassification" process the firearm must remain in storage till the proper paperwork is obtained from the CFC for your now restricted firearm hence why taking it to the range and swapping barrels is not legal
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So if they put in writing, then what?

Verifiers don't classify the gun, then only confirm what the gun is for paperwork purposes.

If the gun is registered as restricted, but meets the definition of a non restricted, the registration is wrong. Regardless of what the paperwork says, there is no way to proceed with charges as the physical evidence does not meet the legal defintion of being restricted if it now is set up as non restricted.

Classification isn't based on what the papers say, but rather what the gun's features are. Registration is valid based on an analysis of the features of classifiction.
 
Brian46 said:
put what in writing? what I posted is what the CFC/RCMP is telling everyone who has called and posted so far.
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Right. But if your go to court without a recording, it is hearsay and it is not admissable.

Recorded, either in writing or in audio is court admissable and can be used as a defence.

Not recorded = not proven. (In court)
 
fenceline said:
Right. But if your go to court without a recording, it is hearsay and it is not admissable.

Recorded, either in writing or in audio is court admissable and can be used as a defence.

Not recorded = not proven. (In court)
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so you feel it is legal to swap barrels as you like anywhere and not have to reclassify? or what are you getting at.........

to swap barrels on a restricted and only follow the non restricted law as it pertains to transport and shooting will end you up in a costly court battle which you may or may not win, Up to you, but I wouldn't do it, the chances of getting railroaded in court are too great.
 
Brian46 said:
so you feel it is legal to swap barrels as you like anywhere and not have to reclassify? or what are you getting at.........

to swap barrels on a restricted and only follow the non restricted law as it pertains to transport and shooting will end you up in a costly court battle which you may or may not win, Up to you, but I wouldn't do it, the chances of getting railroaded in court are too great.
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I'm saying written proof of the CFO's opinion lest one needs to defend oneself in court is better than a unrecorded phone conversation which will be in admissible due to hearsay rules at a trial.

It doesn't matter what I think. It matters what can be proven. Evidence needs to be tangible.

What is posted here is third party, hearsay. Not evidence. While it may be correct, truthful, and right, no one here could testify as it being such. "Heard it from a voice on the phone" doesn't really cut it at a trial which is what we all want to avoid. Otherwise we'd all just swap barrels already without worrying about it like we do in this thread.
 
fenceline said:
I'm saying written proof of the CFO's opinion lest one needs to defend oneself in court is better than a unrecorded phone conversation which will be in admissible due to hearsay rules at a trial.

It doesn't matter what I think. It matters what can be proven. Evidence needs to be tangible.
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and the evidence will show it is registered as a restricted regardless of the modifications you did that a verifier did not verify and the CFC/RCMP were not notified about so the firearm could be reclassed. (or in the case of a restricted to non, removed from the registry)
 
fenceline said:
If the gun is registered as restricted, but meets the definition of a non restricted, the registration is wrong.
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No, you are wrong. The firearm is classified as whatever the CFC has it on record as. Changing parts does not officially alter that classification until the paperwork has been submitted and processed by the CFC and the new classification approved. There are bolt action rifles built on the XP-100 pistol action. They remain classified as restricted even though they meet every technical requirement for non-restricted. This has been going for years like this, is the registration on those rifles wrong as well?

cr5's call simply confirms this. The classification does NOT change until the CFC says it changes. Nothing you can do will alter that.


Mark
 
letter from a CFO still doesn't change the law, if something does go wrong, the CFO gets a nice speech from the judge about over stepping his pay grade, you still will be charged.
 
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