The lethality of steel shot, or lack thereof

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pacobillie

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I just finished dinner. I had goose that I killed last year, while hunting with two buddies of mine. I am always very careful not to break a tooth when eating waterfowl, as there are often pellets left over in the meat. Tonight, there were two such pellets. To my surprise, they were of very different size. I recovered and measured them with a micrometer. The larger pellet was 4.60 mm, consistent with BB shot diameter, which is what the three of us used on that day. However, the smaller pellet measured out at only 3.24 mm, meaning it is #4 shot. None of us were using #4, which is woefully inadequate for geese. I can only surmise that another hunter shot at that goose before us with #4 shot and managed to inconvenience and probably hurt that bird. How long that piece of steel had been in that bird, I have no idea.

The bottom line is that we should refrain from using shot size that is inadequate when hunting waterfowl. In doing so, we only hurt the birds, and they will either survive and live a very painful life, or die a slow painful death.

Neither option sounds good.

We also run the risk of breaking a fellow hunter's teeth, which is not good either.
 
It's not just shot size that kills, shot density is important to...

When steel first became mandatory, I used #2 & BB's in a 3 inch shell. The ducks I dropped had very few "hits" on them... IIRC, there was something like 90 odd pellets in the 3 inch BB shell... That's NOT alot of pellets in a pattern, especially if you're trying to shoot past 30 or so yards...

I then switched to #4 steel for ducks & it immediately became obvious that it was a better choice. IIRC there was something like 225 #4 pellets in the 3 inch shell and it tossed a DENSER pattern as a result.

Now with the 3.5 inch chamber, and the fact that geese & ducks are the targets, I have switched to #2 pellets in a 3.5 inch shell. The result was the same number of #2 pellets in the 3.5 inch shell as the 3 inch shell with #4 pellets.

Goose or Duck, I "roughly" have the same pattern density with the 3.5 inch #2's & more down-range energy than the shells loaded with #4 pellets.

Cheers
Jay
P.S. The "secret" to hunting with steel is to limit the distance of your shots. It sucks, but it just doesn't have the same down range "oomph" as lead...
 
I only field hunt geese now. I really wish we could use lead again. The geese have to f*ckin' near land on you before you can shoot at them. Even then I have seen them fly away with feathers falling as they react to a hit at 25-30 yards and still fly away.
 
I missed all of the lead shot days.....from what I hear they worked much better. For geese i use BB 3" in the blackcloud or the new remington 1700fps shots. These 2 types of shells seem to work much better then just the regular stuff.

I have also used the Remington HD made out of Tungsten-Bronze-Iron. Now this stuff works amazing!! but for the price of it.....no thanks. Its supposed to be 10% denser the lead.
 
In these days of steel shot we have to limit our shots to 45 yards or so. Steel shot works just fine inside 45 yards and our modern loads are much better than what was previously availabe. I have killed geese cleanly with steel shot sized T down to 4's, I have also picked BB and 2 sized shot out of birds killed with 4's. The bottom line is if its under 45 yards steel of the appropriate size is capbale of doing the job it is the shooter that wrecks things.
 
CTS said:
I missed all of the lead shot days.....from what I hear they worked much better.
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You have no idea!

You'd come home with your limit...no problem.

And no wounded game getting away on you.

Hell, you could show a duck an Imperial High Brass load in 7&1/2 and the thing would die of heart failure!!

I miss the good ol days.
 
I prefer 1s and 2s for geese for the pattern density as well. Also I feel you have a better chance of a CNS/ wing hit with a denser pattern. A well center load will knock them out cold regardless of penetrations. I smacked one with a 3" load of 2 yesterday. There was no penetration at all, but the bird just dropped straight out of the sky. No bicycling or nothing.
 
4s can be more then fine for geese aslong as you get them close enough. 10-15 yards out. But I agree for the average guys out there BBs is probably the best choice. This year I've only been shooting BBs but two seasons ago I shot nothing but 3" #2s all year at everything. We've even ran some 3.5" #6 heavyshot on a couple goose hunts and it's stone cold dropped them from sky. All in your setup and how you're calling the shot. 30-45 yards I'd suggest BBs but dont see anything wrong with smaller shot aslong as you're getting them in real tight into the decoy hole.
 
Yep, wounded unretrievable game, but the very small handfull of urban office dwellers who claimed birds were graveling up on lead shot have been placated; likely tenured, and thats all thats really important, right?

But fortunately you can now spend up to 30 bucks on a box of shells that are, "better".

As opposed to the 6.00/box lead shotshells that were accurate and harvested game reliably.

Thats the type of "progress" you get when you have yrs of liberal gov't. H:S:

Myself, I've taken to using a marlin 55 goose gun, full choke, lot's of range. Makes up for sub standard steel shot.

Just one more reason to hate the liberals, for anyone who's wondering.
 
pacobillie said:
In doing so, we only hurt the birds, and they will either survive and live a very painful life, or die a slow painful death.

Neither option sounds good.
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That statement can be applied to steel shot in general, regardless of shot size.

I've always maintained that they should have left the regulations as being able to use lead shot as long as you're not hunting over a larger body of water.
In field hunting situations, more birds die from being crippled by steel than they ever did by lead poisoning. My opinion anyhow.
 
Here we go with hunting ethics...

Ok, here is the thing, you can't cite "wounding birds" as a reason that steel shot sucks. I know it happens but the ethics crowd will tell you to modify your behavior. Here comes the same old "Shoot what you can hit..." etc, ad nauseum. Which is good advice, don't get me wrong.
But remember the hall monitors of life, and the anti hunters.
 
daveg01 said:
I have seen them fly away with feathers falling as they react to a hit at 25-30 yards and still fly away.
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Yes, that can happen, but only if the "hit" was a fringe shot! Steel patterns much tighter than lead, and birds hit with the fringe of the shot pattern can escape wounded, but they can escape wounded from the ragged edge of a lead shot pattern too! Pattern your gun and then center the bird with an appropriate load, and watch 'em fall!
I have no regrets anymore that lead is not allowed for geese. I agree that steel 4's are generally too small, but that also depends on the skill and judgement of the shooter. It is possible ( not recommended) to shoot greater Canadas in the head with steel 4's and get clean kills to 35 yards or so. I shoot fast loads of steel 1's for small geese, BB's for the big Canadas. If I do my shooting correctly, clean kills to 45 yards are the norm.
And for those who say that lead should be allowed for field shooting - I for one do not want to poison the eagles that I see cleaning up the wounded geese each fall around here. I think there would still be wounded geese from lead shot, but dead eagles too. It only takes 1-3 lead pellets oxidizing in the gizzard to kill an eagle.
if you really must pass shoot at big, distant birds, Tungsten - iron shot works better than lead ever did!
I shoot a LOT of waterfowl each year, and have done so both both before and after the lead ban. IMHO those still whining about the "good old days" don't have a valid argument. The good old days are here and now.
 
Except those who own $2000 shotguns that can't use steel.................Bismuth is pretty much unavailable and the new NICE shot that was touted to be the same or close to lead was advertised as loadable with same wads and data as lead.Turns out it's not as Hodgon tests maxed out at 10,500 pressure was safe.And only $80 a KG!.............Harold
 
daveg01 said:
I only field hunt geese now. I really wish we could use lead again. The geese have to f*ckin' near land on you before you can shoot at them. Even then I have seen them fly away with feathers falling as they react to a hit at 25-30 yards and still fly away.
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Hit them PROPERLY and they will go down at 25-30 yards, I know because that is the range I start shooting at with my 20 and my 28 .if they are inside my marker decoy, they die easily before they hit the ground, but I lead and concentrate on the head of the bird only.
try it, do not shoot at the whole bird but lead solely for the head.
Cat
 
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Shooting #4 steel at geese inside of 30 yds is perfectly fine if you are taking the head/neck out. You don't get a lot of wounded birds at that range. Shooting them with 4 steel outside of 40 yds is going to wound a lot of birds. IMO shooting steel at geese outiside 40 yds is going to wound a lot of birds regardless of the shot size you use. I let a lot of birds pass so that I can make sure I get head shots on them.
 
Far more birds fly away wounded and die later after being shot with steel shot, than would have ever died from ingesting lead. But what would we know, we are just dumb hunters, politicians all know more than us.
 
Fire306 said:
Far more birds fly away wounded and die later after being shot with steel shot, than would have ever died from ingesting lead. But what would we know, we are just dumb hunters, politicians all know more than us.
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True, and IMO I too feel steel shot wounds and thus kills far more birds than lead poisoning did. Only problem with the lead was that in many places it would remain and poison birds for decades.

With this said, I must say that I shot lead ammo for 31 duck seasons before it was outlawed. The change was painfull for me, my father just quit hunting ducks all together as he was in his mid 70's at the time. Must also admit that I have not much enjoyed duck hunting since non-toxic shot became mandatory.

My kids on the other hand have never knowingly fired a lead shot shell at ducks. They will never know the difference between lead and steel and have thus adapted to hunting waterfowl with steel shot.

If I had the choice between lead and steel for waterfowl I must admit I would go back to lead fives for ducks so fast I would likely get a nose bleed.
 
sjemac said:
Shooting #4 steel at geese inside of 30 yds is perfectly fine if you are taking the head/neck out. You don't get a lot of wounded birds at that range. Shooting them with 4 steel outside of 40 yds is going to wound a lot of birds. IMO shooting steel at geese outiside 40 yds is going to wound a lot of birds regardless of the shot size you use. I let a lot of birds pass so that I can make sure I get head shots on them.
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f:P:

Oh boy, here we go.......head shots on flying birds.
 
M12shooter said:
True, and IMO I too feel steel shot wounds and thus kills far more birds than lead poisoning did. Only problem with the lead was that in many places it would remain and poison birds for decades.

With this said, I must say that I shot lead ammo for 31 duck seasons before it was outlawed. The change was painfull for me, my father just quit hunting ducks all together as he was in his mid 70's at the time. Must also admit that I have not much enjoyed duck hunting since non-toxic shot became mandatory.

My kids on the other hand have never knowingly fired a lead shot shell at ducks. They will never know the difference between lead and steel and have thus adapted to hunting waterfowl with steel shot.

If I had the choice between lead and steel for waterfowl I must admit I would go back to lead fives for ducks so fast I would likely get a nose bleed.
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Ok, I am gonna say it.....I will hazard to guess that at least 10 times as many (waterfowl type 3 inch mag hi-brass etc ) lead shells are sold here every duck season. Take from that what you will.
 
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