The M14 in Vietnam: One Veteran's Experience

Still at least we were smart enough in the commonwealth to use Mk 7 Z with the light wood or aluminum in the front 1/3 of the bullet cause we knew 30 cal FMJ does kinda actually suck.

You seem to be confusing marks of ammunition, when it comes to the .303 British round. The original marks were a jacketed round nosed bullet, which was considered unsatisfactory. The design was then changed keeping the round nosed bullet, but cutting the jacketing back around the nose leaving an exposed lead nose - much more devastating performance, and it was found to be more stable in flight. The British also played around with hollow points in this time frame. In the Boer War era things began to change markedly, with the Hague Convention of 1899 making "expanding" rounds illegal as being inhumane. The second Hague Convention of 1907 expanded on things as well. During this timeframe the British had gone up to the Mk.V loading of the .303 British round - and all these rounds were removed from service due to the conventions on the conduct of war. There was also the Mk.VI, which was removed from service due to a lack of performance - it was another attempt at a round nosed thinly jacketed bullet; but the thin jacket did not prove to be successful at causing expansion; shelved...

1910 rolls along, and the British introduce the Mk.VII loading. This is a fully Hague Convention "compliant" bullet design, in the sense that it is an FMJ bullet - and a modern bullet in the sense that it is a spitzer design as well. The British have come up with an ingenious bullet design, though, in which the nose of the bullet is aluminum or cellulose/compressed wood and the base is lead and antimony. What this does is make a tail heavy bullet, which while stabilized in flight due to gyroscopic forces will tumble/yaw significantly when it impacts; causing severe wound damage.

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The Mk.VIIz and Mk.VIIIz rounds were boat tailed rounds, with nitrocellulose propellants designed with long range machine gunnery use in mind.
 
Close enough for me lol. Was really more making the point that the 5.56mm was in very good company inasfar as lethality complaints after switching calibers goes, not worried about the particulars of the nomenclature. Something was done because simply boring a .30ish cal hole through meat was deemed to be unsatisfactory, and there was dismay over the reaction (or lack thereof) on the part of recipients.
 
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Not all trees are created equal tho, id bet there are some lush jungle trees over in "Nam" that dont stop bullets as well as an American hardwood.
 
According to most authorities on the matter, the adoption of the M16 over the M14 came about because the US Army had been stunned by a study that only one or two soldiers of a squad or whatver caught in a shooting match would actually fire their rifles. The main idea of the AR15/M16 was that the rifle provided a lot of firepower for a given weight of ammo, plus of course there were the factors of humidity and close ranges and other conditions of the Vietnamese countryside and war experience.



There's an entire other angle (political, of course) to the M-16's adoption: Robert "Project 100,000" McNamara's "vision" for an infantry where things like individual skill & marksmanship were relegated far below equipment... :wave:



IMHO, the story of the M-16's adoption cannot honestly be told without referencing Project 100,000... .:yingyang:



That said, sometimes good final outcomes (e.g. the M-4 platform) do result from shady/inauspicious beginnings... :stirthepot2:
 
speaking of shooting thru trees...… years ago when there were no silly magazine restrictions my friend randy and I bought a pile of sks rifles that came with a free case of ammo with every package of 5 rifles. We went up to Chilliwack to a big clear cut to do some target shooting. One of the 25 yard targets was stapled to a tree that was broken off 40 feet or so up. It was a good 18" diameter fir tree. Noticing the wood chunks flying from the tree after a few target changes, we got silly with it and the game was on to cut the tree down with our rifles.
It worked, but it took an awful lot of 123gr 7.62 norinco silver box …… good thing it was free ammo LOL

I personally would have zero faith in using a tree for cover against a firearm, regardless of the type of tree.
 
speaking of shooting thru trees...… years ago when there were no silly magazine restrictions my friend randy and I bought a pile of sks rifles that came with a free case of ammo with every package of 5 rifles. We went up to Chilliwack to a big clear cut to do some target shooting. One of the 25 yard targets was stapled to a tree that was broken off 40 feet or so up. It was a good 18" diameter fir tree. Noticing the wood chunks flying from the tree after a few target changes, we got silly with it and the game was on to cut the tree down with our rifles.
It worked, but it took an awful lot of 123gr 7.62 norinco silver box …… good thing it was free ammo LOL

I personally would have zero faith in using a tree for cover against a firearm, regardless of the type of tree.

Typical 7.62x39 ball has surprisingly good short range penetration against most types of barriers, and is even able to somewhat keep up with 7.62x51 despite the disparity in power.

This was something that was quickly noted and taken advantage of by the NVA and Vietcong.
 
speaking of shooting thru trees...… years ago when there were no silly magazine restrictions my friend randy and I bought a pile of sks rifles that came with a free case of ammo with every package of 5 rifles. We went up to Chilliwack to a big clear cut to do some target shooting. One of the 25 yard targets was stapled to a tree that was broken off 40 feet or so up. It was a good 18" diameter fir tree. Noticing the wood chunks flying from the tree after a few target changes, we got silly with it and the game was on to cut the tree down with our rifles.
It worked, but it took an awful lot of 123gr 7.62 norinco silver box …… good thing it was free ammo LOL

I personally would have zero faith in using a tree for cover against a firearm, regardless of the type of tree.



Inevitably, there's also a Paul Harrell video on the "sheltering behind trees" topic... ;)
 
The British army had a tree shooting film, fairly small trees, 5.56, 7.62x51 and 7.62x39 all did the same, straight through. They also drilled through a full brick wall with the SA80 LSW on a bipod.
Tragically, NATO spent so much of its resources on tree defence, and then did most of their killing in the desert. The old "fighting the last war".
I wonder how the cold affected trees in the Battle of the Bulge? Maybe that favoured the defender, turning the tide against the Nazis.
 
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