The Mad Ogre: Why I Hate The AR15

There is 99.9999999% chance I WON"T be in combat situation for the rest of my life. Therefore I would love an AR. I would love a CZ858, too for that matter. I would love a lot of rifles.

This is silly argument ain't it? All them soldiers carrying and USING their M16s and M4s, if they are so terrible, I don't think they will be trying so hard to hide the truth. Since I'm reading and hearing that U.S. coalitions dominating almost all the major ground combat engagements, you would tend to think that ARs are good, don't you? and not the other way around.
 
I've owned 3 AR-15s, 2 Colts and a Stag. Never had a problem with any of them. They are all very accurate, reliable, fun to shoot and look awesome. :D

I love AR's. Always have, always will.
 
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Morpheus32, I am genuinely curious, if you were given a choice to carry another design/model of firearm, is there anything you personally would prefer above the AR15/M16/M4 family?
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I prefer the C8/C7 series based on my operational experience. I have not wanted with it and it gets the job done. Remember, in the army, we all work together and have a system of systems approach to the use of firearms. When we go out to do the business, we have a bunch of weapons that can be applied to the task at hand. Some people say that the ### rifle is better or ### caliber is best....well I don't worry so much about that as I have a 25mm cannon close at hand and a radio which gives me access to B52s! For the firearm romantic, they envision a one on one type engagement and simplify the comparison in this manner. To be honest, the taliban can have the most accurate and reliable AKs on the planet....but I will happily apply a health dose of 25mm and 155 HE to overcome this. We have 7.62mm machine guns, 84mm rockets and a host of other weapons in my tool box. So for urban operations, at night, the C8 with PEQ2/PAC4 and NVGs, you can effectively fight at night in close terrain. If a target presents at long ranges, I have other weapons to deal with it. We can dominate the battlefield. Despite a lot of internet and gunrag gossip, engagement ranges are either quite close ie rock throwing distance or long range...with seldom in between. So if you look at thinks, we have the right mix of systems.

Now if you insist on an "Omega Man" scenario to base a comparison, heck I might have a different choice....but that is not my case. I fight taliban not zombies...and I do it in teams with a mix of firearms and weapons. So I hope that this clarifies things a bit. The AR15 system is good to go particularly for urban operations with the C8/M4 style. If the army needs more, we have the bits to cover off. If zombies are an issue for you and you anticipate being by yourself....well you might make different choices. As I once said, the operator is the important issue here not the caliber or type of firearm. Our troops are extremely well trained....

Jeff
 
My experiances with the current military C7 are:

-fairly accurate within reasin
-a ##### to clean
-easy to carry and use
-Mags falling out one rifle when being fired.
-jamming rather often
-a real pain to ever clean the gas tube.

These were largely training rifles and have a lot of wear. I'm sure that the ones being sent overseas are much newer and perform much better. If I had to use any of the rifles I've been issued so far I'd be shatting my pants, thats the mo though. I'd bet using a piston system would make a world of difference.
 
When I first got my Armalite, it was really tight. Now it's broken in, and runs like a top. A friend of mine who had an AR180B and now has a PE90, has more stoppages than I do or did on any given range day.

I love my AR. CZ-858s are pretty good too. One of my CZs blew a trigger, and when I got it back from warranty, a few times empty cases got stuck in the chamber. Same thing with my SKS-D. Those things required tools to fix.

on the rare occasion that my AR jams, a simple pull of the charging handle has fixed it, whereas the Cz and SKS needed tools, and if I was using those for defence, I would be dead. I'll keep my AR thanks
 
Yeah... I like ARs.. but I would like it in a piston design and maybe I will convert my LMT over to a .308 or a 6.8spc. Modular is nice.

I would also like an AK74 or newer...but thats not gonna happen.
 
What's up with the gas tube cleaning? I was never trained to do this in the military, nor was I ever expected to.

You don't clean the gas tube.

As for the jamming, etc, I never knew the 'AR' was so bad until I got out and read about it on the internet (outside of the old themold mags with broken lips). The C7 served me overseas and domestically near perfectly.

I'm assuming those who speak of C7s being prone to jams are not talking about blanks, right?
 
perhaps the issue is that the milspec grade stuff which is seeing real use is mostly pretty good.. but some civi stuff (non milspec)like some of the #### brands account for alot of the AR reliability issues?
 
Morpheus32 said:
I prefer the C8/C7 series based on my operational experience. I have not wanted with it and it gets the job done. Remember, in the army, we all work together and have a system of systems approach to the use of firearms. When we go out to do the business, we have a bunch of weapons that can be applied to the task at hand. Some people say that the ### rifle is better or ### caliber is best....well I don't worry so much about that as I have a 25mm cannon close at hand and a radio which gives me access to B52s! For the firearm romantic, they envision a one on one type engagement and simplify the comparison in this manner. To be honest, the taliban can have the most accurate and reliable AKs on the planet....but I will happily apply a health dose of 25mm and 155 HE to overcome this. We have 7.62mm machine guns, 84mm rockets and a host of other weapons in my tool box. So for urban operations, at night, the C8 with PEQ2/PAC4 and NVGs, you can effectively fight at night in close terrain. If a target presents at long ranges, I have other weapons to deal with it. We can dominate the battlefield. Despite a lot of internet and gunrag gossip, engagement ranges are either quite close ie rock throwing distance or long range...with seldom in between. So if you look at thinks, we have the right mix of systems.

Now if you insist on an "Omega Man" scenario to base a comparison, heck I might have a different choice....but that is not my case. I fight taliban not zombies...and I do it in teams with a mix of firearms and weapons. So I hope that this clarifies things a bit. The AR15 system is good to go particularly for urban operations with the C8/M4 style. If the army needs more, we have the bits to cover off. If zombies are an issue for you and you anticipate being by yourself....well you might make different choices. As I once said, the operator is the important issue here not the caliber or type of firearm. Our troops are extremely well trained....

Jeff
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+1

IMHO
In most of today’s conflicts going to war is not like going to a boxing match where both parties are evenly weighed. If the other team had air, tank, what ever support equal to my team and had the same type of training and tactics…. them shooting at me with ARs or AKs would be the last thing on my mind.

I think if you want to compare a modern AR to its AK counterpart you should at least compare it to a modern AK in this case the AN94

Cheers
P
 
You cant beat the AK design for a battle weapon,so simple and few moving parts.Reliability is very important in the field i'd say.Alot of real combat veterans dont think that AR's are that hot,i'd listen to them,not the bench shooters....
 
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Why do these anti-ar design tards constantly come off sounding like Walter Mitty?

They "hint" at real life experience, but the experiences they report are entirely contrary to the experiences of just about everyone I have known, met, or briefly talked to.
 
"The best way to improve the AR-15 is to unscrew the front sight, and put a new gun under it."

I like AR's and carried a C7 for a few years (just in training), but that cracked me up.:)
 
(Ronin) said:
You cant beat the AK design for a battle weapon,so simple and few moving parts.Reliability is very important in the field i'd say.Alot of real combat veterans dont think that AR's are that hot,i'd listen to them,not the bench shooters....
Click to expand...

OK....so far as far as I can count, three people on this board have carried an AR into harms way. We have also finished 7 months of sustained combat in Afghanistan and all the after action reviews and reports detail how the rifles and munitions have performed extremely well. So "a lot of combat veterans" say that the AR is good to go....and I say that from first hand experience....

Jeff
 
I've only had one serious stopage with a C7 that could not be fixed with a simple recocking, and that was with the old thermoform plastic mags. The bolt tried to load the entire mag worth of ammo when the lips broke off and ended up jamming one round up into the gas system and 2 more were jamed up trying ot get into the chamber.

But the new metal mags work well.

Cleaning the gas system ?? why, oh because some over zellous NCO on basic has to find some reason to give you a hard time on inspection. Hell I was picked up with having lint on my wool socks, and rust on the stainless steel C5 knife. So the have to find something its easy to find a little carbon. I did my basic with an FN those things were a bugger to get clean.

IMHO the military wore out more rifles by improper cleaning then by shoot them out. But I've been noticing a shift in those practices :)
 
It's a good thing I can read about all the "problems" I am having with my AR-15's on the internet. :rolleyes:

It seems the flawless performance at the range with all my AR-15s over the years is just an illusion. It means nothing apparently.

Thank goodness the internet has set me straight! :dancingbanana:
 
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The M4/M16 family of weapons is the best available.

It is reliable, accurate, lightweight, modular. What more could you ask for?

AKs- Accuracy is reasonable, mags are bulky & heavy, ammo is heavy, fire selector isn't ideal

FN- Sweet weapon if you shorten it (mine had a DSA upper), ammo weighs a ton

Sigs - Great weapon if it doesn't break, weapon is heavy, parts of mucho $, mags are hard to come by, Rocking style mags make mag changes take longer.

G3 - Ammo weighs a ton, weapon is too long

I've owned and used all of these weapons overseas. There is a reason that those with a choice carry AR/M4 variants.
 
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