The Magnum Ego'$

[Vader]

Face it ...we all know people who blow the dust off the rifle and head out into the bush to shoot bambi's. They are conventional caliber as well as magnum. If they do go to the range they make a point of hitting paper and remarking thats good enough cause the animals don't stand still anyway. Safety is always paramount as is accuracy. If you are practicing regularly you probably take pride in what you do and want to make a humane kill. You are also most likely practicing safety as you run into people who remind you and you also become familiar with you're weapon and skills, both of which enhance safety.
In the 35 years I've been hunting I would say that I see more accurate shooters using conventional rounds such as 303, 30-06, 308, 270 etc. I do see some really excellent magnum shooters as well although they are comparitively few in number. The reason for this I believe is that most of the bad shooters were poor shooters with the conventional rounds in the first place and moved up to compensate. I often hear them remark "if you nick 'em they're dead". And a few other choice remarks like "you just aim right at 'em and they fall over...no need to hold over up to 400 yards". I also hear uneducated remarks from the conventional group as well like, "Load to the max..it's all about speed", but it seems as though the "puffier" remarks come from the magnum core and magnum people have a rather annoying habit of remarking about getting a "real" gun instead of a little peashooter as if only "real men" shoot real big guns.
I own a 338 mag but I just don't like to shoot it, and when I do.. I don't shoot it well, or at least not well enough for me to have confidence in it. Oh I could hunt with it but it's not nearly as accurate as I would like it to be. I prefer my 270 and just recently bought a 280 and they both shoot just over 1/2 inch groups at 100 and coupled with the proper bullet and shooting conditions, (the same conditions I would shoot the Mag under), I am very confident with the 270, and if the 280 performs as well.... I have never lost an animal, touch wood, and have only tracked 2 for any distance, (my fault not the rifles), but recovered both of them. From rabbits to elk and moose my 270 has yet to fail.
My point is mostly...If you shoot it well, shoot it often, have confidence in it, can pack it all day, then thats the weapon for you.. If not... find something else that works for ya... like paintball.

 

[Sasquatch]

It's like sticking a half a dozen tom cats in a gunny sack.

 

[Mumptia]

Can the guys who shoot mags drink more beer than everyone else?

If so, no mags in the camp this year!

 

[sksavenger]

First off....im sorry about getting agitated with you.......clay and doug.
The thing that makes me shake my head is the whole idea that guys buy magnums to reach out and shoot at game furthur than the shooter is capable of.
If i was stupid enough to shoot at a deer out of range of my ability, id do it with my 25-06 or my 300RUM or one of my win mags. it wouldnt matter which one i wounded it with. it would just be stupid. Yes i agree there are some stupid hunters out there, some do carry "magnums" and lots carry "standard"
calibres. And as far as me being 16 years old, i must have been born with a gun cause ive been hunting big game for 16 years now. Doug.......perhaps youd like to see some pics of some of my 180-225 inch mulies i took with my red ryder

 

[Foxer]

The thing that makes me shake my head is the whole idea that guys buy magnums to reach out and shoot at game furthur than the shooter is capable of.

Ahh - but is this a problem with the 'guys', or with the marketing and such from the companies?

Newbie getting into hunting starts reading reviews on guns .. starts seeing that the 30-06 can 'only' go out about 400 yards, whereas the new super-hyper-megafat-ultrawide magnums can go out to 500.

He assumes that means that thats how far people can shoot with them. Gee, thinks he, i sure would hate to miss a chance at a deer that was 500 yards away, just because i bought too little gun.

(Even if he learns to shoot well, this guy will likley light into his deer at more like 100 yards like the rest of us and blow a lot of meat away. But nobody ever worries about the deer being too 'close' )

The problem is everyone always talks about squeaking out the best performance in the 'gun media', and 'better' bullets and such. It gives newbies the impression that they're hunting with second rate goods if there isn't a 6 foot bolt of fire coming out of the barrel when they 'light off'.

 

[sksavenger]

I agree to a point. But as long as the gun companies arent lying, they have the right to brag up there new stuff, and thats what they do. But the "guys" buying should (i realize some dont) know there shooting limitations. Iknew when i bought my 300 win mag and when i bought my RUM that im not able to shoot to the ability of the guns on the bench never mind in the field. And i also knew it when i bought my 25-06. But i do know if there is a deer standing calm and broadside at 500 yards and i have time to go prone and use my bipod and take my time, ill take the shot. And i believe thats ethical because im confident it will fall

 

[stubblejumper]

It isn't about stereotyping among shooters nor is it about one group not wanting to rub shoulders with the other.

It's about attitude.

It's the guy with a magnum rifle and thinks he's the biggest baddest mo-fo in the field and can take a 500 yard shot without knowing better.

Or the "hunter" who archly condemns anyone using a round more powerful than a .223 for deer. His perception of the supremacy of his own talents is such that he regards anything else as overkill.

Or the duck hunter who strides into a clay target range thinking the rules don't apply to him and that using a shotgun not to kill things is a touch silly.

Or the upland hunter who uses a .410 on flying pheasants because he is so convinced of his own superiority with a shotgun and his preeminent place on earth that anyone else using a larger gauge is a lesser human being.

These people are simply dickheads and deserve a thorough public slagging.
__________________

You forgot a few such as:

The 30-06 is 100 years old so how can it possibly miss?

or

The 30-30 has killed more deer than any other cartridge and it never misses

or

The .303 got us through two world wars so it can do anything

or

O,connor killed hundreds of animals with the .270winchester so it can kill any animal under any circumstance.

 

[bronco_mudder]

Newbie getting into hunting starts reading reviews on guns .. starts seeing that the 30-06 can 'only' go out about 400 yards, whereas the new super-hyper-megafat-ultrawide magnums can go out to 500.

He assumes that means that thats how far people can shoot with them. Gee, thinks he, i sure would hate to miss a chance at a deer that was 500 yards away, just because i bought too little gun.

This is so true, it kind of made me chuckle as it brought back a memory of my younger brother when he was still in high school a number of years ago. Growing up we never had a lot, so our first guns for hunting were the good ole Lee Enfield 303's. Great for deer hunting and I've still got mine I got when I was 14. Anyhow, after I left home and got out into the "real world" working hard brought extra money that was sunk into my passion for rifles. Being the nice guy that I am I loaned my younger brother a .308, instead of using that old .303, at least better optics on the .308. Well he calls me up one night and asks if he could borrow my 7mm mag. Of course I ask why. Turns out him and one of his buddies had narrowed down where a very big buck was traveling, but couldn't set up closer than 600 yards, because of lack of cover on the land they could hunt on. I start laughing, and tell him the .308 will shoot that far as well as the 7mm mag., it's just that he can't, and not to worry about it. Maybe it's just funny for me because I can still hear the excitement in his voice about the big deer, but the whole situation is exactly as Foxer had described. Just a lack of experience.

 

[Barracuda]

the mag grandaddy of them all the 375 H&H . it is not a lazer beamer or a massivly oversquare round . by todays standards it would hardly be a magnum, It is very simply an adequte all purpose round just like an 06 .

 

[walksalot]

I couldn't care less if a guy shoots gophers with a 600 nito express as long as he/she can hit the little buggers but if it's flinch city and your the mayor then a reassessment of which caliber is right for you is in order.

What I would like to see is more free hand practice going on at the range. Punching paper is good to get the gun sighted in and developing a smooth trigger squeeze but off hand shooting is a bit different. I know others my digagree with this but a softball sized group at 100 yds free hand should not be an unrealistic expectation. Certian hunting situations make trying to find a rest less than realistic because one is in such close proximity to ones target.

Also, getting a gun tuned correctly, this incluced trigger pull, is essential to being a good free hand or bench rest shot, in my opinion.

 

[BIGREDD]

Well this thread has certainly taken off in a predictable fashion.

Surely you all can see that the intolerance and self righteous nature that is prevalent in our community has once again reared its ugly head.

I am fortunate to be involved with the hunting and shooting sports on many levels. I work and play in an area that has the highest population of active hunters and shooters anywhere in Canada. I deal with these hunters and shooters on all levels, professional, recreational, educational, retail and service and many more.
As a member of this community I am offended by many of the suppositions and untruths that are bandied about on a regular basis in these threads.
I deal with hundreds of hunters and shooters each year and a very very small percentage of them are unethical in any way. The supposition that "many" or "most" are "bad shots" or "unpractised" at their chosen sport is simply not true.
I think that many of us need to check our ego's at the door and look at the big picture.
United we stand... divided we fall.

 

[Garand]

Try hunting out west, it might change your perspective.

 

[Foxer]

What I would like to see is more free hand practice going on at the range.

Well a lot of guys do this in the bush, and save going to the range for sighting in and that kind of thing.

I shoot a fair bit in the bush (heh - when the bush isn't covered in snow). Feels more 'real' than the range.

 

[Levi Garrett]

I shot a Moose with a 22LR @ 1500 meters
But serous , shooting in a large clearcut basin from a high perch is excellent practice, with a good backstop,the dirt, where you can see everywhere,not shooting into the woods where murphy may be waiting, is much fun.
I would place targets at 200-500 meters , and test ammo , amazing what you can learn from this 10-25 deg. down angle shooting.
Now in this situation , even if a bullet hit and bounced, if it ever got airborne again, it would never leave the cut. Cautions would be check the entire area first, and even put a round in the dirt to be totally sure no one was playing around in there. Good binos a must.
Frank

 

[Gatehouse]

You forgot a few such as:

The 30-06 is 100 years old so how can it possibly miss?

or

The 30-30 has killed more deer than any other cartridge and it never misses

or

The .303 got us through two world wars so it can do anything

or

O,connor killed hundreds of animals with the .270winchester so it can kill any animal under any circumstance.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


That is exactly what I was going to say!!


And "I ain't much of a target shooter, but I am poison on game with my trusty 30-06 "

 

[stanway]

Well this thread has certainly taken off in a predictable fashion.

Surely you all can see that the intolerance and self righteous nature that is prevalent in our community has once again reared its ugly head.

...

I think that many of us need to check our ego's at the door and look at the big picture.
United we stand... divided we fall.

Well, I am almost sorry for starting this thread. However, I hope that it has helped some people look at our sport from different perspectives.

We do all need to work together, and I know I will be taking some of the things discussed here to heart. I hope others will too.

 

[Gatehouse]

Try hunting out west, it might change your perspective.

You haven't hunted in 20 years!!

I've found that it comes down to who your hutning partenrs are. Same as who you shoot on the range with. SOme guys are unsafe, most are safe and very ethical.

I've seen just about every type of shooter (hutner/trap/pistol/ etc etc) use poor jusdgemnt, and swing thier muzzle too close to someoen else. And I've looked down the muzzles of alot of range shooters that shoudl know better!!!

It's not whether they are a hunter or a target shooter- It has more to do with how much experience they have in using ranges/gun safety, and their general knowledge/attitude.

 

[John Spartan]

My view on magnums - if you enjoy shooting them, good for you. No one's interests are exactly the same and they change with time. It would be boring if we shot the same cartridge.

Right now, I'm having a ball with leverguns and their various chamberings. The same with milsurps, custom rifles, etc. Thinking about getting a 300 H&H magnum one day and stoking it up for hunting one fall. So many choices, so much fun...

 

[Garand]

Gatehouse, you are correct, I haven't hunted in 20 years. I am a competitive target shooter that spends in excess of 50 days a year on the range though,so I see alot of hunters. The reason that people I shoot with are so concerned with safety is because of the large amount of firearms handling they do through out the year. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if you see an numpty trying to zero in his hunting rifle on the range acting in an unsafe manner, that he won't act the same way out in the bush. That is a fact, whether you like it or not. Yes, choosing compatible hunting partners is very important, I generally hunted with people that had as much firearms experience as I did. People that grab a rifle out of the closet to hunt for 4 or 5 days of the year rarely have the same safety concerns as high volume shooters. Yes, I also see a number of very dedicated safe hunters at the range throughout the year, but unfortunately they are in a minority. Throughout the year I regularly shoot with a gentleman who zeros his hunting rifle with a cold bore. I have seen him spend 3 or more hours to fire 2x 3rd groups. He always tags out.

 

[Gatehouse]

Gatehouse, you are correct, I haven't hunted in 20 years. I am a competitive target shooter that spends in excess of 50 days a year on the range though,so I see alot of hunters. The reason that people I shoot with are so concerned with safety is because of the large amount of firearms handling they do through out the year. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if you see an numpty trying to zero in his hunting rifle on the range acting in an unsafe manner, that he won't act the same way out in the bush. That is a fact, whether you like it or not. Yes, choosing compatible hunting partners is very important, I generally hunted with people that had as much firearms experience as I did. People that grab a rifle out of the closet to hunt for 4 or 5 days of the year rarely have the same safety concerns as high volume shooters. Yes, I also see a number of very dedicated safe hunters at the range throughout the year, but unfortunately they are in a minority. Throughout the year I regularly shoot with a gentleman who zeros his hunting rifle with a cold bore. I have seen him spend 3 or more hours to fire 2x 3rd groups. He always tags out.

Read my comments again:

It's not whether they are a hunter or a target shooter- It has more to do with how much experience they have in using ranges/gun safety, and their general knowledge/attitude.

Guys that only shoot at the range a coupel of times are just as bad as hunters that only use thier firearms once a year.