The Maritimes' disappearing deer

TXS said:
Sorry to bust your bubble, but I'm not trying to stir anything, but I call BS when I see it. It grinds my gears when people speculate and blame something they don't understand, and when informed of the truth and a different point of view, they still only want to argue their point of view as still in the right ( sort of like the anti gunners?)

Yes, I know it's a pain you have to drive a whole hour to your hunting grounds. It involves planning, patience, resources and time. And your right, if you have to go that far, so do others, therefore compition. Guess what? You can deal with it, it is possible. The nearest crown land for me is 1.5 hour drive away for me; hunting grounds are just shy of 3 hours one way, and that's just to the entry point. It takes a whole day to go out, set up/check my trail cams, scout the area, erect a tree stand/blind and try to be home by 8pm. I've burnt a full tank of fuel, my vehicle is usually covered in mud/dust/grime, and I'm played out by day end. I do it, because I love to hunt. I love being out here, and there are obstacles to overcome. Does it suck to drive almost 6 hours to hunt? Sure does, but I suck it up, and I do it, rather than complain on a board about how rough you have it because your neighbours wood lot doesn't have deer like it used to.

If I were back in NB (and maybe someday will be), I'd be making the trek to those massive hardwood stands that still do exist. I'd find the big white tails that still do exist there, and I'd have a hell of a good time doing it, even if it involved a little leg work. I'd do it because I love it, and there would be no complaints I assure you.
Click to expand...

It grinds my gears when people think they know better than scientists in their fields of expertise.
 
I believe my eyes and own personal experiences over some yack who sits in an office all day and writes opinionated papers. My favourite part was about his 'annual outing' to view the areas he wanted,but couldn't comment on other places supposibly thriving. Sounds like he took all the evidence into consideration, eh?

Can't say in my years working the bush, I've ever met ANY scientific folk (aside from the silviculture end) out and about, neither has any of the half dozen DNR officers I personally know. DNR say while there has been a reduction in the number of large antlered game, there is no shortage of the younger ones, poaching is on the rise even though the number of hunters provincially are dwlindling, therefore a drop in registered deer, imagine!

Drive along the highway at any point between Fredricton and edmunston to witness what's on the side of the road every couple of Kms.The millions of dollars in fencing seems to be not working as advertised. The company that installed the fencing were even advised by this same scientist who claimed such s fence would prevent deer/vehicle fatalities. Working real well now ain't it.

I've been there, I've witnessed and lived it. You believe some smuck because it's what you want to hear, and blame the untouchable elites of the province, because well, it's easy to do, yet not many are willing to actually put in some time or travel to get to where the game is, or make any sort of beneficial political push for change. Typical whining, do everything for me attitude of NB. Hope the cut in qualified EI annual hours serve you well; it's all coming off the back of my pay check.
 
Last edited:
TXS said:
I believe my eyes and own personal experiences over some yack who sits in an office all day and writes opinionated papers. My favourite part was about his 'annual outing' to view the areas he wanted,but couldn't comment on other places supposibly thriving. Sounds like he took all the evidence into consideration, eh?

Can't say in my years working the bush, I've ever met ANY scientific folk (aside from the silviculture end) out and about, neither has any of the half dozen DNR officers I personally know. DNR say while there has been a reduction in the number of large antlered game, there is no shortage of the younger ones, poaching is on the rise even though the number of hunters provincially are dwlindling, therefore a drop in registered deer, imagine!

Drive along the highway at any point between Fredricton and edmunston to witness what's on the side of the road every couple of Kms.The millions of dollars in fencing seems to be not working as advertised. The company that installed the fencing were even advised by this same scientist who claimed such s fence would prevent deer/vehicle fatalities. Working real well now ain't it.

I've been there, I've witnessed and lived it. You believe some smuck because it's what you want to hear, and blame the untouchable elites of the province, because well, it's easy to do, yet not many are willing to actually put in some time or travel to get to where the game is, or make any sort of beneficial political push for change. Typical whining, do everything for me attitude of NB. Hope the cut in qualified EI annual hours serve you well; it's all coming off the back of my pay check.
Click to expand...

So, where are your credentials and peer-reviewed papers?
 
33 years of personal experience. I lived it, and I know BS when I see it. He took a course in wildlife management, big whoop, doesn't make him an expert. I can take a course on truck driving, doesn't make me qualified to hold a seat in a b-train. If this guy was a real scientist, he'd be providing fact based evidence, and leaving personal opinion and politics out of it. And I doubt he had many peer reviewed opinions on the peice this whole thread is about.
 
The logging practices in N.B. do have a very direct impact on the deer population in the province. When I was a kid growing up logging companies employed dozens of men with chainsaws and teamsters with their horses, then came the skidders, but still they still mostly felled trees with chainsaws.
Nowadays logging operations employ very few men and they harvest wood with feller bunchers, harvesters, and huge grapple skidders or forwarders that run around the clock 24 hours a day with the only down time for brake downs or maintenance. These behemoths can clear cut a hundred acre block in a few days, and they can cut where previous operations couldn't even think about going.
Most operations are worth millions in machinery costs, and have to produce in unprecedented volumes, because what they are paid for their wood fiber is not much more than what they were paid in the 1970's
Deer don't winter in the hardwoods, and when you take away their winter food and bedding areas they are easy pickings for the coyote packs, and some of these critters weigh up to 50 lbs. Killing all their summer and winter browse with herbicide doesn't help them either.
If you get a succession of bad winters and predation the deer herd doesn't have a chance to rebound, that along with the elimination of most of their winter deer yards, I believe the thought of N.B. being a good place to hunt deer will become just a fleeting memory.
 
Like the old saying

"logging used to be a bunch of fellers, now it's just a feller buncher."

Deer in N.S. seem to be steadily going down for the last 20 years as well, not that DNR or the govn't gives a damn as long as they get their tag sales for the poor scmucks chasing the last deer around.

I used to hunt at a camp on the south mountain, all swamps and little hardwood ridges. A lot of deer were taken every year for 20 years and every year numbers were similar, till they clearcut the place and drove a logging road into it. The next fall you couldn't even find tracks (other than tire tracks)
 
Near the end of the article the interviewer asks the question: What would you say the average concerned citizen can do to effect change? Is there anything we can do?

I can tell you what I have done...and that is put my money where my mouth is. I purchased 470 acres of lakefront Manitoba interlake property. The Manitoba government currently has the islands in the lake as a protected bird refuge where hunting is not allowed and neither is using power boats for the purposes of hunting on the waters of the lake.

I purchased the land to attract, retain, and improve the property for wildlife and subsequently, hunting. You as a private citizen can do the same. This is the first step to effect change. You must become the landowner and game keeper. You cannot depend on your government to do this for you...they are not in the business of wildlife conservation, they are in the business of selling hunting and fishing licenses.

If you are to have hunting opportunities into the future, then you must take matters under your own controls. Become a wildlife manager yourself. This is the most effective strategy and one which moves a hunter to become a conservationist. I would urge all of you to do the same. And, if all you can claim to afford is the cost of a license then maybe you should start thinking about a hunter-landowner agreement that ensures you access to private land where game can be valued and managed to the benefit of both the landowner and the hunter, and of course the wildlife we claim to value so highly but are so reluctant to spend to money to protect.

Jeff
 
TXS said:
33 years of personal experience. I lived it, and I know BS when I see it. He took a course in wildlife management, big whoop, doesn't make him an expert. I can take a course on truck driving, doesn't make me qualified to hold a seat in a b-train. If this guy was a real scientist, he'd be providing fact based evidence, and leaving personal opinion and politics out of it. And I doubt he had many peer reviewed opinions on the peice this whole thread is about.
Click to expand...

Lol.

Did you even read the article? The scientist in question is a biologist that worked for the NB MNR for 22 years, and an avid hunter to top it off. In academic circles, he is what is called an expert. I suggest you read up on the Dunning-Kruger effect.
 
umchorn2 said:
I can tell you what I have done...and that is put my money where my mouth is.

If you are to have hunting opportunities into the future, then you must take matters under your own controls.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Smart Jeff, very smart. kudos.

I know some lucky enough to be able to purchase a block of land and they are by far the happiest hunters on earth. Some plant feed lots or maintain a sanctuary for wildlife, only hunted by them and their buddies. I know others as well who can't nessicarily afford to by large tracks of land, but have sided with family land or a private land owners to plant and maintain a feed lot on their property, usually in exchange for help a few times a year (planting/harvest season). Some go as far as planting small feed plots on a special tract of land on crown (not recommended, but it's done) to help support wildlife. You said it best, take matters into your own control.
 
God, gun owners quiting mediacoop, a media outlet that hates hunters and gun owners. The real govt stats show that deer herd in NB has returned to the levels of the 1940_60s, after a spike in population in the 70_90s. The spike has been blamed on the increasing food available from the abandonment of NB family farms. One example; Anyone remember the bread basket of Sheffield along the TCH, grain, corn, mixed veg, it's all sod for urbanites now. These farms are now overgrown to the point of no longer being good food plots.
 
I can't agree with that. I have been associated quite a bit with registered BC foresters and been in the bush with them. Mother nature does a far better job of creating forests, than does the tree harvesters. After a fire, evergreen seeds will sprout and start to grow. So also, in BC anyway, does hardwood trees, like poplar come to life. The poplar grows fast, making a protected environment for the spruce, pine or douglas fir that has started to grow. The evergreens grow faster, get taller, quicker because they have to stretch up through the hardwood's to get sunlight.
I was once walking through a beautiful virgin forest of douglas fir, tall, straight and few limbs on it, with a forester on assignment, when he made the remark that this bush was about 70-75 years old. Of course, I asked him how he knew and he said poplar trees die at about 50-55 years and there lots of remnant poplar stubs and stumps still around.
Later, his core samples proved the fir trees were about 75 years old and as he further stated, "too young to harvest, they are still growing good."


Grizzly Adams said:
I've hunted and done trail riding around cut blocks for the last 20 + years plus, not by choice, Looks like hell for the first few years, but essentially does the job a forest fire would do if Ma Nature had her way, probably way less destructive in the long run. A lot of science and government oversight goes into logging these days. Might not like it, but as long as we need lumber and toilet paper, unavoidable.

Grizz
Click to expand...
 
the amount of deer in some parts of nova scotia may be less but in the most southern part of n.s on cape sable island the deer are doing very well and causing too many car accidents. during the winter a lot of people are feeding the deer behind their homes making them very fat and tame. this is a problem as when I go into the woods to hunt for deer there are few to be seen as most of them are near homes getting fat. last year 15 deer were killed on the roads of c.s.i. the winters here are not bad as the sea water keeps the temps up and we do not get that much snow, mostly rain. the deer I got last year was very fat as it took me an hour to cut the fat off before I got it cut up.
 
TXS said:
Having worked there previously and having a birds eye view (literally), all I can say to the anti-Irving protests is What your spewing is pure BS. Yes, there have been some older growth mixed areas that have been cleared. There have been stands of pure softwood blocks also cleared. This is not done at random, or by some conspiracy, it's a very well thought out forestry management plan in action, with extreme care and due diligence taken for the environment and the next generation. Everything that is cut is replanted. Everything. With a substantial amount of investment put into seeing the block regrow, survive and replenish. Yes, herbicide is applied. It's done with very advanced, gps tracked, guided, and only activated when a number of factors are present, in quanities no more than nessicary, as it all costs money,...big money to do. This has to be done to suppress hardwood growth, as its naturally aggressive nature would outpace newly plant softwoods. As for barren tracks of land cleared with no life, that's also BS. There are some places plaster rock area like this, but none Irving ground. Previous failed companies are to blaim for this, and the government for not making sure they comply.

As for no more hardwood wintering areas, that's also BS. What there is, is less of ithe easy to access (closer to cities and towns) areas to those stands. This was done for strategic regions. Easy access means building roads. This is expensive to do and maintain. Allowing people access cost more money with no payback (from a business perspective). So those previously accessible hardwood stands were gated. Unlike with government, if you cost Irvings money, you get cut off, period. People abused the system, and are being locked out because of the nitwits.

There are thousands of acres of hardwood stands still remaining in NB, trust me, I've seen them at my favourite time of year and the leaves of colour don't lie. What is lacking, is people willing to make the trek to get to them, as vehicle access is almost none existent; they are in more remote parts of the province, almost untouched, and they are beautiful. There are some roads near, but none directly to them; direct access was not made for a reason....but they can be accessed. Heaven forbid anyone having to work to go hunting; the days of driving around with your buddies half cut in a half ton shooting out the door need to come to an end. The hardwood is there, and the deer population is there as well. But the anti Irving people prefer to ignore this type of information, and focus on the 5 acres in their backyard that didn't grow back instantly after it was cut.
Click to expand...

This is the most intelligent post regarding forestry management that I have read in a long time. Being a pilot and having flown across Canada, I can honestly say that New Brunswick should be used as a model to other provinces regarding forest management. I do not need a gps to tell me when I have crossed in to Nova Scotia, for example. The cut over scrubland, that has been mis-managed for years, sticks out like a sore thumb. If other provinces would follow the example of New Brunswick, perhaps they too could enjoy the great jobs that come with a healthy forest.
People want lumber to build homes and paper to wipe their mess or print reports. These things don't come from thin air.
 
It never ceased to amaze me all that wonderful forested crown land in NB and many rivers and streams.
But you needed an "permit" to just land your canoe on unoccupied crown land that happened to be logged by guess who; irving.

^Wonderful PR right there......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom