the moisin bayonet myth

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Sirus115

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anyone ever actualy test it, is it true that the rifles are sighted with the bayos on? i was wondering because my recent purchas a 44 ex sniper seems too shoot high right at 450-600 yards... anyone with any info?
 
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Adding a chunk of iron to the front of any rifle will change the vibration characteristics of the barrel, thus altering the Point of Impact.

When the Number 4 Lee-Enfield came out, it was equipped with that slow-to-use but lovely Mark 1 rear sight. Unfortunately, that rear sight turned out to be the bottleneck in rifle production, so a whole series of replacements was engineered. First among these was the little Mark 2 sight, which was a double-aperture flip type with apertures for 300 and 600 yards and, of course, nothing in between.

The big problem then became the fact that, although the rifle shot rather well at 300 and 600, the Germans, having absolutely NO sense of ha-ha, refused to stand up politely at those two ranges to be shot at. They INSISTED on creeping about at OTHER ranges, which really screwed up the PBI who were trying to shoot at them.

The SOLUTION lay in that silly little spike bayonet which was issued for the Number 4, so the School of Musketry worked out a system for shooting at INTERMEDIATE ranges by using the rifle sometimes with bayonet fixed, other times without the spike. There actually is a CHART (and I do hope somebody posts it; I am still photobucket-illiterate) which shows you how to shoot from 200 out through to 600 and beyond by alternately using/not using the bayonet with the rifle. The system WORKED and the Number 4 Rifle with the simple Mark 2 rear sight became a valued combat weapon rather than simply a curiosity..... so they cranked out a couple million more of them. AFTER the War, many of these Mark 2 sights were replaced by later models (including many Mark 1s) but that was only because production, by then, had finally caught up with demand.

Remember, the Russian Army, and then the Red Army, issued a bayonet with every rifle.... but they did not make or issue scabbards. The bayonet was to be carried ON the rifle.... and for more reasons than simply saving 30 kopecks apiece.

Hope this helps.
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I the last two weeks, I personally two Mosins and I saw several more shooting at the range.
They all shot high to the right.
 
polaris said:
I the last two weeks, I personally two Mosins and I saw several more shooting at the range.
They all shot high to the right.
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Just recently got a Mosin 91/30 . Shot about 20 ish rounds without the bayo...all shoot high and to the right.

I'll be trying with the bayo this weekend and see what it does.
 
Sirus115 said:
anyone ever actualy test it, is it true that the rifles are sighted with the bayos on? i was wondering because my recent purchas a 44 ex sniper seems too shoot high right at 450-600 yards... anyone with any info?
Click to expand...

My ex-Dragoon shoots noticeably tighter with the shtyk fixed as God and Sergei Mosin intended. Similarly, my M44 shoots a foot left unless I extend the NATO.
 
I tried this with my No1MkIII and got comments from the guys shooting on either side. Tried it with my No4Mk2 (bladed bayo) as well (yea more smart ass comments:)) I didn't notice a difference, but I was only out to 100m and I can't shoot worth a...Just get ready for comments is all, I felt like explaining why I was doing what I was doing but then thought why bother.
 
rdelliott said:
My ex-Dragoon shoots noticeably tighter with the shtyk fixed as God and Sergei Mosin intended. Similarly, my M44 shoots a foot left unless I extend the NATO.
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What would a man with Mosin Nagant generally extend towards NATO? LoL

Ya it gets more complicated than simply bayonet, no bayonet.

The gun recoils in an arc. The front post is offset to accommodate this. Changing the length of the barrel (bayonet) effects barrel harmonic resonance.
So does shooting anything other than Russian military surplus loads.

With my 165grn cast boolit- 43grn BL-C2 loads the rifle shoots 100yds on using the 200meter setting dead on elevation and 8-12" right stringing from my M44 bayonet extended.

With S&B 180grn soft points it shoots 4" dead centre groups but 4-6" high using the 100 meter setting.

I've since adjusted the front post to allow for straight shots with reloads bayonet folded.

I hate guessing windage but have ample elevation adjustment. I mean when in a practical sense am I ever going to shoot an iron sighted M44 2000 meters?

P.S. The hammer pictured on the Soviet insignia (black smiths cross peen hammer).....that is what was needed to break my sight free!!!
Bent the sight drifting clamp, destroyed a 1/4" brass punch, even with the center punch marks lightly drilled. They were not meant to move.....ever.
 
Chumlee Bumsnag said:
Hubba-Bubba!
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whitey07 said:
ouch!!!!! well deserved might i add
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So now an unissued Polish M44 is somehow a war relic?

Mind your business.

You can polish up the old war time turds all you like, and I won't complain, but start telling me what to do with my own property, and I will go buy a 91/30 and chop it up just to spite you.
 
Here you go, Smellie. :D

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Grizz
 
mlehtovaara said:
So now an unissued Polish M44 is somehow a war relic?

Mind your business.

You can polish up the old war time turds all you like, and I won't complain, but start telling me what to do with my own property, and I will go buy a 91/30 and chop it up just to spite you.
Click to expand...

An unissued Polish M44 is just that, an unissued 60 year old rifle.

No one told you what you can or can't do with your property. Do whatever the hell you like. But fact remains that your actions are what are commonly referred to as bubba-ing.

If I bought an original 52 Chevy and cut the top off Id expect criticism, you should too. It is A) the internet and B) a milsurp forum. Lol
 
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