The Mystique of the Pre-64 Winchester M70

[Rod]

The pre-64 NRA stock, standard or monte-carlo, both work very well for scope use. It's no secret, just mount the scope correctly, low and close, and it works perfectly. Mount the scope too high so it's sticking up and catching on everything, of course it's not going to work, and you'll be groping for eye relief.

I've not heard of any weakness from the pre-64 M70 in long action magnum calibers The Model 70 came available in 1936 in 9 calibers; 22 Hornet, 220 Swift, 250-3000 Sav, 257 Roberts, 270 Win, 7 MM, 30-06, 300 H&H Mag and 375 H&H Mag. The pre-64 was an improved upon M54. The length of the receiver was designed to accommodate all these 9 calibers long and short. The pre-64 action is very strong and has been used over the decades for many high end custom rifles.

Here's a photo of my 1953 M70 in 300 H&H. Standard NRA stock with a Leupold B/C VX-3 scope. The scope is mounted correctly and the rifle comes up quick for easy eye relief. Works perfect.

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[Joel]

Works well if its a Leupold with a really slim eyepiece.

Have had problems gettin some others that are a bit chunkier in the butt low enough haha

 

[Leeper]

The pre-64 NRA stock, standard or monte-carlo, both work very well for scope use. It's no secret, just mount the scope correctly, low and close, and it works perfectly. Mount the scope too high so it's sticking up and catching on everything, of course it's not going to work, and you'll be groping for eye relief.

I've not heard of any weakness from the pre-64 M70 in long action magnum calibers The Model 70 came available in 1936 in 9 calibers; 22 Hornet, 220 Swift, 250-3000 Sav, 257 Roberts, 270 Win, 7 MM, 30-06, 300 H&H Mag and 375 H&H Mag. The pre-64 was an improved upon M54. The length of the receiver was designed to accommodate all these 9 calibers long and short. The pre-64 action is very strong and has been used over the decades for many high end custom rifles.

Here's a photo of my 1953 M70 in 300 H&H. Standard NRA stock with a Leupold B/C VX-3 scope. The scope is mounted correctly and the rifle comes up quick for easy eye relief. Works perfect.

.

I'm not saying they regularly blow up or anything, but when you remove steel from behind both locking lug abutments, it sure as hell doesn't strengthen it! The Model 54 was designed around the 30/06 and the Model 70 copied it in dimension. The Model 70 was opened up, by removing material from behind both lugs, to accommodate the H&H cartridges.

 

[guntech]

It's no secret, just mount the scope correctly, low and close, and it works perfectly. Mount the scope too high so it's sticking up and catching on everything, of course it's not going to work, and you'll be groping for eye relief.

Mounting the scope as low as possible does not raise a very low comb. Too low for me.

 

[Snowy Owl]

I'm not saying they regularly blow up or anything, but when you remove steel from behind both locking lug abutments, it sure as hell doesn't strengthen it! The Model 54 was designed around the 30/06 and the Model 70 copied it in dimension. The Model 70 was opened up, by removing material from behind both lugs, to accommodate the H&H cartridges.

Well ... written right here in black on white !

 

[MTM]

Love the pre-64s, had several including a couple of 300 H&Hs. They all have a certain feel to them. Started using the classics when they came out. Better to build on, you can make a .375, .416 on an ‘06 without hurting anything.

 

[SuperCub]

Has anyone ever actually seen one in 7.65 Argentine Mauser? Its always listed as an offering in the blue book and other sources but ive never seen or heard tell of one in the wild.

Ken Waters in his book Pet Loads talks about buying a new pre-64 Model 70 in 35 Remington with a 20" carbine bbl.

Now that is a rare beast that would be worth a small fortune now.

 

[Great North Guns]

They’re nice Mausers for sure. But the "mystique" mosty comes from American gun writers, who were rightfully impressed by what is basically a European market sporting Mauser.

Had it been made in the old world it would be just another commercial Mauser. But the pride is understandable, it really is America’s Mauser.

 

[Joel]

A Husqvarna or similar really does get you the same thing (or perhaps slightly better) at a third of the price

 

[SuperCub]

A Husqvarna or similar really does get you the same thing (or perhaps slightly better) at a third of the price

That's true in a sense but a pre64 M70 has a lot of features right from the factory that don't require custom parts and work. A steel hinged floor and 3 pos safety are a couple features.

 

[Joel]

That's true in a sense but a pre64 M70 has a lot of features right from the factory that don't require custom parts and work. A steel hinged floor and 3 pos safety are a couple features.

For sure, if someone thinks they matter its the easiest way to just have em.

 

[Leeper]

They’re nice Mausers for sure. But the "mystique" mosty comes from American gun writers, who were rightfully impressed by what is basically a European market sporting Mauser.

Had it been made in the old world it would be just another commercial Mauser. But the pride is understandable, it really is America’s Mauser.

This statement might have some validity if one believes the Model 70 was a derivation of the 98 Mauser. The model 70 shares three Mauser design features. It had two forward locking lugs, it has a long extractor which is held on by a collar, and it has a staggered magazine box. That's it. The Springfield was derived from the Mauser although, again, the commonalities are limited. The model 70 is two steps further removed from the Mauser. In essence, the Springfield is America's Mauser (and a poor substitute at that IMO). The Model 54 was derived from the springfield and the Model 70 from the Model 54.There were a lot of the Model 70 feature which were not improvements on the Mauser, but there are some which were. The larger recoil lug and the location of the front screw were improvements. The elimination of the slot through the left locking lug, by relocation the ejector, could be taken as an improvement. When the small ring Husqvarna actions were introduced, one could say they copied this feature from the Model 70! To say that the Winchester Model 70 is just a European market sporting Mauser is kind of a xenophobic assessment of a rifle because it happened to be designed and produced in America.

 

[struff55]

Another pre 64 model 70 thread just what’s needed
The reality is most any new quality rifle cooper kimber Dakota and many more built today is superior in material and workmanship
The allure of old world craftsmanship is appealing for sure
First of the same action size for a 22 hornet and a 375 h&h is just wrong
I have owned many over the years and always seem to let them go because something nicer shows up
Except for one a 1958 featherweight in 270 win a bit partial to that one

 

[South Pender]

This statement might have some validity if one believes the Model 70 was a derivation of the 98 Mauser. The model 70 shares three Mauser design features. It had two forward locking lugs, it has a long extractor which is held on by a collar, and it has a staggered magazine box. That's it. The Springfield was derived from the Mauser although, again, the commonalities are limited. The model 70 is two steps further removed from the Mauser. In essence, the Springfield is America's Mauser (and a poor substitute at that IMO). The Model 54 was derived from the springfield and the Model 70 from the Model 54.There were a lot of the Model 70 feature which were not improvements on the Mauser, but there are some which were. The larger recoil lug and the location of the front screw were improvements. The elimination of the slot through the left locking lug, by relocation the ejector, could be taken as an improvement. When the small ring Husqvarna actions were introduced, one could say they copied this feature from the Model 70! To say that the Winchester Model 70 is just a European market sporting Mauser is kind of a xenophobic assessment of a rifle because it happened to be designed and produced in America.

You’ve identified some important differences between the Mauser ’98 action and the Winchester M70, but FWIW I think we can see the M70 as a Mauser ’98 derivative. A derivative of something else doesn’t have all the same features as the original or come immediately after it; it is generally understood as copying some features of the original, but with some changes. Seems to me that the M70 qualifies, as do a lot of modern bolt actions.

 

[Rod]

The Mauser action set the course for bolt action rifles. The US Forces found out how superior the Mauser was over their Springfield Krag 30-40 rifles in the Spanish American War. The US set forth to come up with their version and the result was the 1903 Springfield. After WW1 Winchester saw the affection for the bolt guns and came out with the M54 a version similar to the Springfield. The M54 used a one piece firing pin and made running improvements on the M54 until 1935. The M70 came available in 1936 that was quite an improvement over the M54. Hinged floorplate, coned breech, NRA stock, side mount safety, a better bolt release, stronger bolt and gas escape hole in a better position and an exceptional trigger. It was an instant hit and became "The Rifleman's Rifle". Could be the reason so many gun makers have copied the M70 and continue to do so today.

 

[Leeper]

You’ve identified some important differences between the Mauser ’98 action and the Winchester M70, but FWIW I think we can see the M70 as a Mauser ’98 derivative. A derivative of something else doesn’t have all the same features as the original or come immediately after it; it is generally understood as copying some features of the original, but with some changes. Seems to me that the M70 qualifies, as do a lot of modern bolt actions.

As you wish!

 

[Ardent]

First of the same action size for a 22 hornet and a 375 h&h is just wrong

Actually, that’s a testament.

 

[NAA]

A Husqvarna or similar really does get you the same thing (or perhaps slightly better) at a third of the price

While I generally love a nice Husqvarna bolt rifle & I've owned a few over the years, I don't have one now, despite one particular Husky 5000 being the most accurate .308 Win I ever owned/shot. I do have a couple pretty nice pre '64 Model 70's, though.

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NAA.