The Old Magazine Debate

fellers88

fellers88

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Funny thing happened the other day at an informal range near town...

I was just packing up after shooting and a CO drives over to the firing line. I was on my own and stopped what I was doing to say hi. I had seen this fella before at the same range and while I don't recall his name, he was quite friendly and pleasant to chat to. I imagine he comes by that range often to check PALs, species licenses and to see if anyone is leaving trash at the range.

I had my WK180 and a single shot 22 with me and he asked to see what I had that they were unloaded as they were back in their cases. In the hard case with the WK were two mags, one pmag (pinned obviously) and a 10rd LAR pistol mag, both out of the gun. He said that his RCMP buddies (lol) told him that the 10rd mags are not allowed in non-restricted rifles because non-restricted semi autos have a max capacity of 5 rounds, end of story. He said he was letting me off with a warning because the magazine wasn't in the gun, but if it was, the whole thing would be a prohibited device and be confiscated.

Not wanting to antagonize him too much I said "Ok but that's not completely true as there are many exceptions such as the M1 Garand, Marlin Camp Carbine, Jr carbine that takes glock mags and these exact mags that fit many non-restricted black rifles before the RCMP changed their little bulletin". he just said he would have to look into it. But regardless I just said I wouldn't use it in that gun and went on my merry way.

Anyways, not much of a moral to the story except be careful out there. Regardless of how we interpret the law, there will always be someone in a position of power more ignorant than you.

If it pleases the crown, may I insert my legally obtained magazine into my legally obtained rifle in which it fits?
 
Law is written : more than 10 rounds capacity in the firearm that magazinewas designed for.

Has nothing to do with use.

Their bulletin points this out as well.


I ask for direct citation of the law being broken. It is your right to ask and for them to show you proof.
 
hsatimmy said:
Law is written : more than 10 rounds capacity in the firearm that magazinewas designed for.

Has nothing to do with use.

Their bulletin points this out as well.


I ask for direct citation of the law being broken. It is your right to ask and for them to show you proof.
Click to expand...

I agree with your intent but I can see the outcome a mile away, he will simply produce the legislation which states “Semi Auto Rifles limited to 5 rounds max” and then look all pleased with himself for “laying down the law”

People in positions of authority such as this really should be more educated on the finer details. Of course the law is convoluted but that’s no excuse for ignorance. The cynic in me believes the law on such things is unclear on purpose......
 
Sniffer said:
I agree with your intent but I can see the outcome a mile away, he will simply produce the legislation which states “Semi Auto Rifles limited to 5 rounds max” and then look all pleased with himself for “laying down the law”

People in positions of authority such as this really should be more educated on the finer details. Of course the law is convoluted but that’s no excuse for ignorance. The cynic in me believes the law on such things is unclear on purpose......
Click to expand...

A good example why we dont talk to the police (well some of us) and dont show our stuff unless absolutely necessary.

Also print and carry the RCMPs very own statement on LAR mags on you when you have LAR mags on you
 
The statement was changed a few years after it was released, they simply removed the line where it mentions the LAR magazines. You could print out the original, but its dated something like 2013 where as the current one is 2016 or so (approximation)


And yes I too believe the law is left vague so that interpretation is left up to the enforcement and therefore our word against theirs. Don't get me wrong, most COs and cops are nice people... but lots are misinformed, ignorant, or acting on old legislation. Also, sure it is their responsibility to prove what you are doing wrong, but that is after they confiscate your property and waste your time and money fighting it in court with no recourse.
 
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Tell him to lay a charge or buzz off. If a prohibited device was such a big goddamn deal he would have a serious obligation to do something about it. Clearly that is NOT the case if a mere warning is sufficient from his point of view. Either way, these "warnings" and such are disgusting. An easy way to make you kiss the Don's ring while not actually doing anything and having no knowledge of the law at all.
 
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I have a hard copy dated 2008-06-18 on RCMP cover letter that’s not in the PDFs posted above. It’s entitled ROCK RIVER MODEL LAR-15 PISTOL MAGAZINES and sent by the Senior Firearms Technologist, F.A. William(Bill) Etter. It refers to the 223/5.56 and 9mm NATO 10 round capacity.
Someone can PM me their email and I’ll send a pic if they could post it here for reference.
 
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Sniffer said:
I agree with your intent but I can see the outcome a mile away, he will simply produce the legislation which states “Semi Auto Rifles limited to 5 rounds max” and then look all pleased with himself for “laying down the law”

People in positions of authority such as this really should be more educated on the finer details. Of course the law is convoluted but that’s no excuse for ignorance. The cynic in me believes the law on such things is unclear on purpose......
Click to expand...

this is not a rifle magazine, it's a pistol magazine, pistol mags are limited to 10 rounds. It is not the center fire semi auto rifle that is limited to 5 rounds, it is the center fire semi auto rifle MAGAZINE that is limited to 5 rounds.
 
I the law is written pretty clearly, specifying the firearm it is originally designed for.

If a cop is willing to lay federal charges on a whim there is a larger problem at hand
 
fellers88 said:
Funny thing happened the other day at an informal range near town...

I was just packing up after shooting and a CO drives over to the firing line. I was on my own and stopped what I was doing to say hi. I had seen this fella before at the same range and while I don't recall his name, he was quite friendly and pleasant to chat to. I imagine he comes by that range often to check PALs, species licenses and to see if anyone is leaving trash at the range.

I had my WK180 and a single shot 22 with me and he asked to see what I had that they were unloaded as they were back in their cases. In the hard case with the WK were two mags, one pmag (pinned obviously) and a 10rd LAR pistol mag, both out of the gun. He said that his RCMP buddies (lol) told him that the 10rd mags are not allowed in non-restricted rifles because non-restricted semi autos have a max capacity of 5 rounds, end of story. He said he was letting me off with a warning because the magazine wasn't in the gun, but if it was, the whole thing would be a prohibited device and be confiscated.

Not wanting to antagonize him too much I said "Ok but that's not completely true as there are many exceptions such as the M1 Garand, Marlin Camp Carbine, Jr carbine that takes glock mags and these exact mags that fit many non-restricted black rifles before the RCMP changed their little bulletin". he just said he would have to look into it. But regardless I just said I wouldn't use it in that gun and went on my merry way.

Anyways, not much of a moral to the story except be careful out there. Regardless of how we interpret the law, there will always be someone in a position of power more ignorant than you.

If it pleases the crown, may I insert my legally obtained magazine into my legally obtained rifle in which it fits?
Click to expand...

He's a power tripping cop wannabe tool. The end.
 
shawn said:
Kind of hard to produce something that does not exist

Shawn
Click to expand...

I’m generalizing. Dedicated rifle magazines for semi autos (ie, not for bolt actions, pump actions, rimfires, pistols etc) are limited to 5 rounds.

This is what my X95 came with (5 rounder) however I use 10 round magazines exclusively in it - totally legally despite what some plastic range cop who isn’t as well versed on the limits as he thinks he is may say.
 
bananarama said:
this is not a rifle magazine, it's a pistol magazine, pistol mags are limited to 10 rounds. It is not the center fire semi auto rifle that is limited to 5 rounds, it is the center fire semi auto rifle MAGAZINE that is limited to 5 rounds.
Click to expand...

I probably own over 20 of them, all marked pistol so I’m well versed on the intricacies thanks. My point is range cop won’t be and will still claim he’s right even though he isn’t.
 
fellers88 said:
... Anyways, not much of a moral to the story except be careful out there. Regardless of how we interpret the law, there will always be someone in a position of power more ignorant than you.
Click to expand...

Very sporting of you to have been civil with him. I’m sure there’s someone in a position of power higher than him and they should re-educate him on the matter. Respectfully reach out to those so others aren’t found in a position to believe him and propagate his ignorance. We get enough of that as it is.
 
Sniffer said:
I’m generalizing. Dedicated rifle magazines for semi autos (ie, not for bolt actions, pump actions, rimfires, pistols etc) are limited to 5 rounds.

This is what my X95 came with (5 rounder) however I use 10 round magazines exclusively in it - totally legally despite what some plastic range cop who isn’t as well versed on the limits as he thinks he is may say.
Click to expand...

In another example showing the opposite, when I bought my restricted Kriss Vector in .45 ACP, it is registered as a restricted rifle, yet is sold with a 10rd Glock Pistol Magazine included. Same thing if you buy the non restricted versions, they all come shipped with an OEM Glock 10rd pistol magazine
 
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