the original black & green pump shotguns - Winchester 1897 -&- Ithaca M37

870P said:
Apparently its because they don't want to take their barrel machine out of service just to reprogram it to thread one barrel.

Alrighty, I can understand that, but I pointed out that since they're offering a gun at a premium price point, shared with the likes of the STF-12 and "tuner" 870s, they might want to consider it as a regular option in the future.

They also mentioned that they still have some 14" AOWs in stock, but now I'm waiting to seeing if those could be exported, with a buttstock of course.
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Ok, so they're not set up for it at the moment. All the more reason for them to farm out the work.
 
870P said:
Does the 1897 retail shells in the tube in a similar fashion to the Model 12?

{video is a bit derp, but you get the idea}

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No it doesn't. Has 2 shell retainers that hold the shells up in the tube like the ithaca. It wouldn't be able to work like the model 12 as it doesn't have the "gate" or the extension under the bolt.
 
madashell said:
The takedown design on the 97 is very interesting. Wonder what the legalities are of leaving the mag tube loaded while taken apart ?

Indeed, a takedown 870 would be the ultimate.

I've thought about figuring out a way to at least make the mag tube screw-in on an 870. Somewhat takedown .
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You can't keep the tube loaded, the shell retainers are in the receiver, and if it was loaded you wouldn't be able to separate it as the shell would cause it to bind.

You can with both models of the burgess though.
 
^^^

Thanks.

Waiting to hear back from Vang Comp, seeing if they can do a 37 barrel, and if so then it'll be back to Ithaca to see if they ship to them, and also if they sell me a 14" barrel.
 
870P said:
^^^

Thanks.

Waiting to hear back from Vang Comp, seeing if they can do a 37 barrel, and if so then it'll be back to Ithaca to see if they ship to them, and also if they sell me a 14" barrel.
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Don't know if you mentioned it further up but Just watch out as the old ithacas and new ithacas don't necessarily use the same barrel threads.
 
Stray03 said:
Don't know if you mentioned it further up but Just watch out as the old ithacas and new ithacas don't necessarily use the same barrel threads.
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Yeah, in fact Ithaca specialist gunsmith Ron Sharp once mentioned to me that even the supposedly interchangeable models sometimes need fitting.

I don't think there's any kind of issue with Upper Sandusky barrels and receivers though.
 
Stray03 said:
You can't keep the tube loaded, the shell retainers are in the receiver, and if it was loaded you wouldn't be able to separate it as the shell would cause it to bind.

You can with both models of the burgess though.
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Gawd I need a Burgess.

There's a gun that needs to come back in to production.

Can you imagine having a 12 gauge Burgess on one hip, and a 45/70 Burgess (a few were made) on the other? That would end the "What's the best bush gun/combo?" conversation forever and ever amen.
 
grelmar said:
Gawd I need a Burgess.

There's a gun that needs to come back in to production.

Can you imagine having a 12 gauge Burgess on one hip, and a 45/70 Burgess (a few were made) on the other? That would end the "What's the best bush gun/combo?" conversation forever and ever amen.
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Nice guns personally like the take down version of the shotgun more than the folding version but I may be biased. It would probably cost too much to make now either way. And it wasnt without its flaws. The extractors are horrible on them. Bloody tusks to guide the round up to the chamber which break often (in my case both missing). And from the few different ones I have seen in pictures parts are all individually fitted and all slightly different as they improved design.
 
Stray03 said:
You can't keep the tube loaded, the shell retainers are in the receiver, and if it was loaded you wouldn't be able to separate it as the shell would cause it to bind.

You can with both models of the burgess though.
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Thanks for answering this Stray03. That takes away a bit of the interest in the 1897 because if you could leave the tube loaded it would be very useful.

Burgess certainly looks cool. I don't want to get excited about another old shotgun .... so thanks for bringing that one up !

Think I'll end my old school interest at the M37.
 
madashell said:
Thanks for answering this Stray03. That takes away a bit of the interest in the 1897 because if you could leave the tube loaded it would be very useful.

Burgess certainly looks cool. I don't want to get excited about another old shotgun .... so thanks for bringing that one up !

Think I'll end my old school interest at the M37.
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I dont know the early repeaters have different quarks but they are interesting. They were all being designed within 25 years of eachother which meant patents were still protected. This makes them all interesting even though some were failures. Infact the only reason the 37 was a 37 was because they were waiting for the browning and pederson patents to expire (iirc). If you like how firearms work then they are fun to own, if not then stick to the 500 and 870 because they just took the best of the ideas that came out of the late 1800 and early 1900s and put them into 1 gun. This way they are reliable but very boring.
 
Stray03 said:
Nice guns personally like the take down version of the shotgun more than the folding version but I may be biased. It would probably cost too much to make now either way. And it wasnt without its flaws. The extractors are horrible on them. Bloody tusks to guide the round up to the chamber which break often (in my case both missing). And from the few different ones I have seen in pictures parts are all individually fitted and all slightly different as they improved design.
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The weird rear pump on the Burgess would take a lot of getting used to as well.

Some kind of 870/Burgess hybrid would be interesting. Forward pump, but with the shell retention and folding of the Burgess...

One of those "I had a dream..." guns that will probably never exist.
 
grelmar said:
The weird rear pump on the Burgess would take a lot of getting used to as well.

Some kind of 870/Burgess hybrid would be interesting. Forward pump, but with the shell retention and folding of the Burgess...

One of those "I had a dream..." guns that will probably never exist.
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Actually the rear pump is a joy to use and you dont have to worry about getting hit by the bolt like on the 97. Seeing as the trigger moves with the "pump" it actually feels pretty natural.
 
Looks like Ithaca doesn't want to outsource any barrel work, the best they could offer is to send the gun out with a high polished blueing instead of the standard nitride finish, which pretty much precludes any further machine work.

Not sure if I just want to say "screw it" and order a standard gun, or go through the hassle and expense of getting the blue gun and having to send it off to get it the way I want it?
 
madashell said:
Sorry to hear that 870P, was hoping they'd come through for you.
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Who knows, maybe they will, I have a lot of things on my plate and won't be buying another gun for a little bit yet.

The blued finish is kind of tempting though, even if it's not the best choice on a hard use gun.

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Interesting. I thought they still used parkerizing for the defense.

I don't see the removable barrel or AOWs on their website.

IMO 14" doesn't look as good as 12.5" or whatever they put on the Stakeout. I have an M87 14" on my 37 and wish it was a touch shorter. I've been thinking of sending it to TacOrd for years to install Rem rifle sights and Vangcomp.

Dave Fortier did up a nice '97 for HD. Cut LOP to 12.5", barrel down to 18.5" and parkerized it. I think he said it was only6.5lbs after the mods. Makes me want to do the same.
 
Leg said:
Interesting. I thought they still used parkerizing for the defense.

I don't see the removable barrel or AOWs on their website.

IMO 14" doesn't look as good as 12.5" or whatever they put on the Stakeout. I have an M87 14" on my 37 and wish it was a touch shorter. I've been thinking of sending it to TacOrd for years to install Rem rifle sights and Vangcomp.

Dave Fortier did up a nice '97 for HD. Cut LOP to 12.5", barrel down to 18.5" and parkerized it. I think he said it was only6.5lbs after the mods. Makes me want to do the same.
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Stop giving me ideas Leg :p
 
Leg said:
Interesting. I thought they still used parkerizing for the defense.

I don't see the removable barrel or AOWs on their website.

IMO 14" doesn't look as good as 12.5" or whatever they put on the Stakeout. I have an M87 14" on my 37 and wish it was a touch shorter. I've been thinking of sending it to TacOrd for years to install Rem rifle sights and Vangcomp.

Dave Fortier did up a nice '97 for HD. Cut LOP to 12.5", barrel down to 18.5" and parkerized it. I think he said it was only6.5lbs after the mods. Makes me want to do the same.
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The blueing would be a custom order, they even offered it with AAA grade wood as above.

The AOWs aren't listed but they have a few left in inventory apparently.

Tradionally the short 37s were 13.5", I agree that they look better in that length but its not a huge deal to me.
 
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