The ''proper'' scope for my big Brno

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SomebodyTookMyName

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Many volumes have been written on this site with regards to finding just the right scope for a given rifle, and my quandary today is nothing new, however I love to hear advice and opinions of the various voices here...

Last weekend, as the Lord's favour would have it, a lovely Brno ZKK-602 followed me home from the Calgary Gun Show. With 3-leaf 300m irons, a brass front bead, a decent chunk of walnut and a 25" pipe, chambered in the venerable .375 H&H and clothed in the deep shiny plum-hued bluing of yesteryear, she is the epitome of a workhorse mid-bore with just a touch of class. Now, what for glass?

Most of my hunting will be close-mid range, but she'll be used as an all-round rifle, and not only heavy game- this will be used for everything from whitetail through cape buffalo.

The rifle came with an original Brno QD mount, which matches beautifully of course, but limits me to a scope with a 1" tube.

I am a bit of a self-proclaimed optic snob, I'll admit... so what can a fellow find these days, new or used, that:

1. is durable enough to withstand regular hard use?
2. is versatile enough to cover anything from zero to about 3-400 yards?
3. still looks right on an old Brno?
4. has a 1" tube? (likely the hardest part)

Aaaaaaaaaand go!
 
I have a 375ruger. I hunt anything with it here in BC.
I have a 2.5-8x36mm leupold vx3.

I’ve shot game from 5yrds out to a little over 200yrds.
It shoots steel out to 400yrds with 235g TSX and 300g SBT loads no problem.

The gun rides in trucks, quads, sleds, boats and tons of hiking.
Gun looks well used. Scope has never budged zero in 5+ yrs.


5 leupolds now in the line up now.
 
SomebodyTookMyName said:
Many volumes have been written on this site with regards to finding just the right scope for a given rifle, and my quandary today is nothing new, however I love to hear advice and opinions of the various voices here...

Last weekend, as the Lord's favour would have it, a lovely Brno ZKK-602 followed me home from the Calgary Gun Show. With 3-leaf 300m irons, a brass front bead, a decent chunk of walnut and a 25" pipe, chambered in the venerable .375 H&H and clothed in the deep shiny plum-hued bluing of yesteryear, she is the epitome of a workhorse mid-bore with just a touch of class. Now, what for glass?

Most of my hunting will be close-mid range, but she'll be used as an all-round rifle, and not only heavy game- this will be used for everything from whitetail through cape buffalo.

The rifle came with an original Brno QD mount, which matches beautifully of course, but limits me to a scope with a 1" tube.

I am a bit of a self-proclaimed optic snob, I'll admit... so what can a fellow find these days, new or used, that:

1. is durable enough to withstand regular hard use?
2. is versatile enough to cover anything from zero to about 3-400 yards?
3. still looks right on an old Brno?
4. has a 1" tube? (likely the hardest part)

Aaaaaaaaaand go!
Click to expand...

Obviously a Nikon African 1-4x24

Like I have been seeking for my 602 since Christ was a cowboy.

In the meantime a Leupold 1-4 x24 (get a custom reticle??)
 
Africa hunting guys tended to use shockingly inexpensive and mundane stuff. Finn Aargaard's second Win 70 in 375 H&H had a Weaver 2 1/2x scope - he wrote there was many head of game he took because he could not have picked it out from the shadows with the aperture sights on his first 375 H&H. A few years ago, his widow - Berit - took their 50th Cape Buffalo with that rifle on an African hunt - she was using Finn's "old rifle" - apparently still worked fine, there.

I guess i am too old to have "got the memo" about needing to use a variable scope - most of my truly "hunting" rifles have fixed power - M8-3x on 9.3x62, M8-4x on 308 Win / 30-06 and M8-6x on 338 Win Mag. I do own a number of 2-7, 3-9 and 4-12 scopes on various centre fire rifles, but mostly for "show", I suspect... Two scoped "target rifles" have a M8-12x and an SWFA 12x with mil-quad set-up. The "Palma" style target rifles have aperture sights - are not "scoped" at all.

I am not certain about that BRNO 602 - I do not own one to know for sure - but I think that one has a "pull back to fire" type safety. I do not know what other rifles that you use - Phil Shoemaker's comment was "somebody is going to get killed" with rifles with "backward" safeties and "dangerous" game.
 
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The 375 has legs that outpace typical low powered variables. It's no secret that I am a huge fan of the Leupold 1.5-5x, but in all honesty, the 375 can make use of more scope than that. The 2.5-8x Leupold is a much better choice as it let's you take advantage of the extra reach of the 375. The 1.5-5x will do it, but just like most people will want more reach on a 30-06, they can make use of that extra bit of power to reach out at open-country ranges. The 1.5-5x is fine, but most people will want more power for a 250 yard shot, which is well within the 375's wheelhouse. The 375 isn't a true fight-stopping rifle. It's adequate to use on most any undisturbed dangerous game, but if you lose that element of surprise then the 375 doesn't quite have the jam for that job. Great client rifle, poor PH rifle. So to that end, you don't really need the 1.5x bottom end like you would on a 416 or 458.

So that's my pitch for a little more power on a hunting scope on a 375.
 
I have a leupold ultralight 2.5X on my 45-70 and can assure you it would stand up to the H&H. It only weighs about 6 ounces and would not look out of place.

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SomebodyTookMyName said:
I'm tempted to agree, but finding one with a 1" tube is proving difficult right now..
Click to expand...

I’ve always like the Leupold Vari-X III line for order blued vintage guns. If your picky about matching finishes (like me) they are easy to find with a gloss finish. Yes, there are better scopes out there but for the money and unlimited warranty they are hard to beat. You can send it to Korth to change the reticle if you can’t find l one with a #4. I’ve only seen a few Vari-X II 1-4x20s and Vari-X III 1.5-5x20s with a #4 and guys tent to want a $1,000,000 for them.

Fixed M8s would work too. Personally I like the variable for “tricky” shots because most of the time I keep them at the lowest power.
 
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If you want gloss, a Vari-X III in 2-7 or a M8 in 3x or 4x. If you don’t mind the matt finish, the new VX3HD in 1-5 or 2.5-8 would be great choices. I am trying to decide between these options for my 9.3x62 build. First I have to decide between a gloss finish or matt blue on the rifle first! I have experience with all of these scopes beforehand. All solid options. The VX3HD’s have the benefit of dialling for range.
 
Potashminer - now that you mention it, I do remember reading an article on Berit's 50th buff- thanks for refreshing my memory! Definitely nothing wrong with a fixed power optic, though I do still appreciate the versatility of the variable, especially with the open areas I hunt here.

And I'm aware of the cons of the backwards safety, so I'm practicing plenty. I do have a fair bit of trigger time on an old CZ452 as well, so it's not entirely foreign to me.

BigUglyMan makes an excellent point regarding the range of the .375- hence why I didn't already just buy a 1.5-5X Leupold and call it a day. Hadn't considered the 2.5-8X really, but after a few mentions of it, perhaps I should consider it more closely...

Suppose I shouldn't be surprised at the outpouring of love for the old Leupolds here :)
 
I am glad that you are aware of the "backward safety" thing - I could not believe how strong "muscle memory" is, when "under pressure" - found out for myself after 20 odd years hunting with a bolt action Model 70 - then got a new Ruger #1 - first time firing at a real nice whitetail buck - I missed, of course - saw the bullet strike low below it's chest and my right hand went winging off into the air trying to cycle the bolt that was not there!!! I would suggest that if you plan to "put your life on the line" with the 602, better put all the others away and stay only with "backward safety" types. Won't be time to think - likely too late, by the time you figure out why rifle did not go off.

When I first started - Dad had got me a No. 4 Lee Enfield - my hands not big or strong enough then to operate that left side safety lever - but No. 4 is "controlled round feed" - so picked up a round from mag - left the bolt handle up - and never did use the safety - became second nature to slap down the bolt handle while mounting the rifle for a shot - I think that I still do that on the control round feed rifles that I use. Probably sucks on a push-feed - for the Model 70, I always used that bolt mounted safety when I wanted a cartridge in the chamber.
 
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Potashminer said:
Africa hunting guys tended to use shockingly inexpensive and mundane stuff. Finn Aargaard's second Win 70 in 375 H&H had a Weaver 2 1/2x scope - he wrote there was many head of game he took because he could not have picked it out from the shadows with the aperture sights on his first 375 H&H. A few years ago, his widow - Berit - took their 50th Cape Buffalo with that rifle on an African hunt - she was using Finn's "old rifle" - apparently still worked fine, there.

I guess i am too old to have "got the memo" about needing to use a variable scope - most of my truly "hunting" rifles have fixed power - M8-3x on 9.3x62, M8-4x on 308 Win / 30-06 and M8-6x on 338 Win Mag. I do own a number of 2-7, 3-9 and 4-12 scopes on various centre fire rifles, but mostly for "show", I suspect... Two scoped "target rifles" have a M8-12x and an SWFA 12x with mil-quad set-up. The "Palma" style target rifles have aperture sights - are not "scoped" at all.

I am not certain about that BRNO 602 - I do not own one to know for sure - but I think that one has a "pull back to fire" type safety. I do not know what other rifles that you use - Phil Shoemaker's comment was "somebody is going to get killed" with rifles with "backward" safeties and "dangerous" game.
Click to expand...

Yep the 602 has a backwards safety so you gotta get used to it. I read one time that these rifles with pull back to fire safeties were because prior to hammerless firearms, half #### was the safety and you pulled back the hammer to fire but cannot confirm that thats a real thing. I think the 550 has a normal safety, I wonder if the 602 can be changed if you cannot get used to it.

After you use it a bit, its ok, but I do shoot a lever action a lot. As well I only use a safety for the final stock, preferring to not have a round in the chamber at all until the rubber really meets the road. The exception to this is the 602 as I keep it handy for bears sometimes but usually use a marlin 45/70 for bear protection. I went as far as to delete the safety on the Marlin as that crossbolt button looked like a good way to turn a gun into a club with a griz huffing and puffing.

My other main rifles for hunting are a win 70 and a wby so the safety is on the bolt, so really pretty different and as i said I only put one in the pipe for the final stock so the safety on these is a very deliberate action. My main rimfires are a cz 452 silo and a 452 canadian so have the backwards safety like thye 602. In all honesty the only time a safety has messed me up is on a break action shotgun cause it was a push forward to fire.

As for scopes I have a 1-4x24 Leupold but someday I am going to find a nikon african for sale and then I will have the dream team. As well I have the Talley QR rings which you can drop the scope and go to the open sights in 3 seconds. I like this idea for evening or night but the front sight on the 602 is not great. I am going to take the gun to a smith next time I am outside and have an inch or so chopped off. Some fool threaded it in the past for a noisemaker. At that time I would love to get a site like this mounted https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/proddetail.php?prod=4224

....but it would need to be done well as the elevation on the BRNOs was controlled by changing front pin height. The excellent 3 leaf sights are not adjutable for elevation. I wish mine had the pop up peep and if I ever saw a pop up peep version for sale I think I would own it and sell mine.

The problem really for doing any work on these guns is lack of upgrade parts and accesories in N America as they were not allowed into the USA until recently. I am not sure if BRNOs ever were.
 
I've got a Model 70 in 375. I don't know how close it is, but I imagine the overall dimensions are similar to your BRNO.

I've got a Leupold VX-Freedom 3-9 on mine, with a hunt-plex reticle (similar to German #4). This version of the Freedom just has caps for the dials, no CDS on top, so it's relatively clean and classic looking for a modern scope. A used VX-2 or similar might look even better because the older turret caps were less "tactical chunky" and more classic looking. If I wanted to go out to 300+, I'd want more than 4x but that's up to you. My intended use is Africa plains game and possibly use in Canada, where I will likely never hunt dangerous game, so a 3-9 is fine. If I ever use it for cape buffalo, I will put a Nikon 1-4 on it.

The VX-3 2.5-8 is highly praised, but when I look at the dimensions, I don't think it would fit right for me. They're excellent scopes but a bit short. I've got Talley extension rings for my rifle and this lets me just barely get the 3-9 back far enough for proper eye relief. Yes, the VX-3 has longer eye relief, but only 0.2" more according to the Leupold website. But, the front mounting space (between the bell and the turrets) on the VX-3 2.5-8 is only 1.57" vs 2.32" on the Freedom 3-9. Overall, based on the dimensions and stated low power eye relief, the Freedom 3-9 lets my eye be about 0.78" further back than the VX-3 2.5-8. There's still plenty of distance to avoid getting scoped, but I need that length for comfortable fit, especially at higher magnification. Something to consider if you're thinking of a VX-3 2.5-8. I know the VX-3 2.5-8 is a better scope but for me the Freedom 3-9 fits better.

Then there's the higher end Leupolds (especially the older ones), Swaros and Zeiss, etc. in the 1-6 range. I don't know much about them and haven't seen many for sale, but I'm sure they'd be better if you want to spend the money. A straight tube on the front would give you maximum mounting flexibility and it has the most classic look.
 
BigUglyMan said:
The 375 has legs that outpace typical low powered variables. It's no secret that I am a huge fan of the Leupold 1.5-5x, but in all honesty, the 375 can make use of more scope than that. The 2.5-8x Leupold is a much better choice as it let's you take advantage of the extra reach of the 375. The 1.5-5x will do it, but just like most people will want more reach on a 30-06, they can make use of that extra bit of power to reach out at open-country ranges. The 1.5-5x is fine, but most people will want more power for a 250 yard shot, which is well within the 375's wheelhouse. The 375 isn't a true fight-stopping rifle. It's adequate to use on most any undisturbed dangerous game, but if you lose that element of surprise then the 375 doesn't quite have the jam for that job. Great client rifle, poor PH rifle. So to that end, you don't really need the 1.5x bottom end like you would on a 416 or 458.

So that's my pitch for a little more power on a hunting scope on a 375.
Click to expand...

Agree. 375 can be effectively used much further away than most people think. - dan
 
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