2 officers showed up on my doorstep asking to see all my firearms which includes 12 restricted and 4 non restricted, i stated do you have a search warrant they said no, i asked what this is all about?, they stated someone reported i had unsafe firearm storage WTF? anyways i said no you cannot come in without a warrant, they said if you don't show them to us this will turn into a full blown investigation and we will come back with one, they said do you have something to hide? so i pulled a locked case which includes 6 handguns out of my main safe and brought them to my doorstep, the looked and stated they have to be double locked all with trigger locks?, i stated this gun case goes into my larger safe so that is double locked, they seemed somewhat satisfied and left, what is the grounds for this??? was their an actually complaint or do they do this at random to any firearm owner? iam pissed i feel harassed! what do you guys think? has this happened to you?
The RCMP came to my house asking to see my firearms!
- Thread starter icelink
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Nothing to file. They can always show up and ask. It's up to you to tell them yes or no. It might not be a bad idea to contact your local RCMP detachment to make sure that the visit was legit and to notify your CFO. You were cooperative beyond your legal requirements.
MudChucker
Regular
- Location
- Niverville, Manitoba, CA
Dont you think that If they could have made it a "full blown investigation" they very likely would have before they arrived at your door step.
As I understood it, it is not a regular joe constable that would inspect your firearms, but the CFO, FO or a designate, AND they would have to make an appointment.
As I understood it, it is not a regular joe constable that would inspect your firearms, but the CFO, FO or a designate, AND they would have to make an appointment.
Hey icelink,
good for you for not letting them in. Screw them with their stupid threats about making this into a full blown investigation. You said it how it had to be said : search warrant or get off my property. They can investigate whatever the hell they want.
If it had been me, I wouldn't even have shown them anything. I just don't volunteer ANY information, ever.
Its very possible that there was a complaint. Do you know any antis?
Oh and that part about the guns needing to be doublelocked? Pure BS. If your restricteds are in a safe, zero need for triggerlocks.
May i suggest you print this out straight from the RCMP's website and leave it with your firearms, in case they ever come back :
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/PDF/storage-entreposage-eng.pdf
I know its frustrating, I'd be pissed the same if it happened to me. But hey, take a deep breath, have a glass of water, and go back to what you do. Its not worth getting cancer over. As long as you know your rights and that you're not breaking the law, you're good to go.
Here are a couple things i would do as well :
- report the situation to my lawyer
- get a video camera to document any further harassment/search attempt/search warrant.
cheers budd.
good for you for not letting them in. Screw them with their stupid threats about making this into a full blown investigation. You said it how it had to be said : search warrant or get off my property. They can investigate whatever the hell they want.
If it had been me, I wouldn't even have shown them anything. I just don't volunteer ANY information, ever.
Its very possible that there was a complaint. Do you know any antis?
Oh and that part about the guns needing to be doublelocked? Pure BS. If your restricteds are in a safe, zero need for triggerlocks.
May i suggest you print this out straight from the RCMP's website and leave it with your firearms, in case they ever come back :
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/PDF/storage-entreposage-eng.pdf
I know its frustrating, I'd be pissed the same if it happened to me. But hey, take a deep breath, have a glass of water, and go back to what you do. Its not worth getting cancer over. As long as you know your rights and that you're not breaking the law, you're good to go.
Here are a couple things i would do as well :
- report the situation to my lawyer
- get a video camera to document any further harassment/search attempt/search warrant.
cheers budd.
I agree with the others here that it was nothing but a phishing exercise, possibly based on a complaint, but if that was the case wouldn't the inspection call have involved the tac team? Personally I believe the whole plan was concieved at the local Timmies.
Const 1: "Hey partner, want another donut, or coffee?"
Const 2: "No thanks, I'm hopped up on caffine and sugar and I wanna find and charge a violator"
Const 1: "Good idea... hey what about a firearms offence, that will look good when it comes to promotion time"
const 2: "Excellent idea, doesn't section 102 of the firearms act allow us to inspect anyone who has more than 10 firearms?"
Const 1: "Yea, it's intended for businesses, but lets see how far we can take this. Some guy who has more than 10 firearms is likely to make some stupid mistake with storage and then we can NAIL HIS ASS!"
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/F-11.6/page-26.html
Const 1: "Hey partner, want another donut, or coffee?"
Const 2: "No thanks, I'm hopped up on caffine and sugar and I wanna find and charge a violator"
Const 1: "Good idea... hey what about a firearms offence, that will look good when it comes to promotion time"
const 2: "Excellent idea, doesn't section 102 of the firearms act allow us to inspect anyone who has more than 10 firearms?"
Const 1: "Yea, it's intended for businesses, but lets see how far we can take this. Some guy who has more than 10 firearms is likely to make some stupid mistake with storage and then we can NAIL HIS ASS!"
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/F-11.6/page-26.html
This section is not only intended for business. Read carefully. It talks first about a business, but it then goes on to enumerate any other place where etc etc
highlighted and numbered here :
Just sayin'.
Still, the OP had every right to refuse and ask for them to come back with a search warrant.
.. Could it possibly be, Heaven Forbid, that there acrtually was a Complalnt that they were following up on ? .... Reality, is the Police just don't have the time, to go on this sort of random, "Fishing Expedition". To say nothing of a lack of motivation. ..... David K
- Location
- Montreal, Quebec
MudChucker is entirely correct. They must either:
- Make an appointment; or
- Show up with a warrant.
Check my post #8. The law states in the very first sentence that they may inspect at any "reasonnable time".
This leaves the door open to you basically deeming an impromptu visit as an unreasonnable time for you. The only way to make sure that any given time is for both parties a reasonnable one for inspection is an appointment.
This leaves the door open to you basically deeming an impromptu visit as an unreasonnable time for you. The only way to make sure that any given time is for both parties a reasonnable one for inspection is an appointment.
So how would you find out if there actually was a complaint? That's a vague excuse.
If there was a complaint, would it not have to be based on something other than heresay OR if nothing solid then follow up with the complainant for making false statements?
That "report a safety concern" button on the CFP website has always made me nervous.
If there was a complaint, would it not have to be based on something other than heresay OR if nothing solid then follow up with the complainant for making false statements?
That "report a safety concern" button on the CFP website has always made me nervous.
Somebody reported that you have firearms. The RCMP looked it up in the system and made a "unsafe storage check" out of it (since they don't want to get blamed later if they don't follow up). Doesn't sound as if there was an actual complaint.
"Full blown investigation" should not be taken seriously. If they have something on you, they come with a warrant or storm your door with the swat team.
Did they show their badges and gave you their business cards?
And, BTW, you don't have to trigger lock your restricted if you store them in your safe.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/storage-entreposage-eng.htm
Restricted and prohibited firearms
* Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is hard to break into; or
* Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.
* For an automatic firearm, also remove the bolt or bolt carrier (if removable) and lock it in a separate room that is hard to break into.
A safe is neither a container, cabinet or room - hence, no trigger lock necessary.
You actually weakened your position when you took the box out of the safe and showed the officers the non trigger locked restricted. There was no proof that the box was actually stored in the safe.
Why did you show them guns anyway, did they ask for it?
Again, did you see the badges and got their business cards?
"Full blown investigation" should not be taken seriously. If they have something on you, they come with a warrant or storm your door with the swat team.
Did they show their badges and gave you their business cards?
And, BTW, you don't have to trigger lock your restricted if you store them in your safe.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/storage-entreposage-eng.htm
Restricted and prohibited firearms
* Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is hard to break into; or
* Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.
* For an automatic firearm, also remove the bolt or bolt carrier (if removable) and lock it in a separate room that is hard to break into.
A safe is neither a container, cabinet or room - hence, no trigger lock necessary.
You actually weakened your position when you took the box out of the safe and showed the officers the non trigger locked restricted. There was no proof that the box was actually stored in the safe.
Why did you show them guns anyway, did they ask for it?
Again, did you see the badges and got their business cards?
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I believe acccording to the Firearms Act it is only a CFO or AFO can carry out "inspections" and with an appointment at a reasonable time,or with a warrant if they convince a justice that the person will not allow the inspection after asking first.
As for regular cops they are not "inspectors" under the F/A Act,and would either
1.need a warrant for an offence CC or public safety issue or
2. believe no time to get a warrant (exigent circustances) for public safety issue.( ie;the gun owner threatened to kill someone)
They may have had some complaint and were just seeing how far they could "question" you on it.good for you not letting them in but be polite and dont get mad ,but might be and idea to complain to the local rcmp staff sgt?
read the section 102 first. and ask if they had a public safety concern?
if not they cant push it too far.
As for regular cops they are not "inspectors" under the F/A Act,and would either
1.need a warrant for an offence CC or public safety issue or
2. believe no time to get a warrant (exigent circustances) for public safety issue.( ie;the gun owner threatened to kill someone)
They may have had some complaint and were just seeing how far they could "question" you on it.good for you not letting them in but be polite and dont get mad ,but might be and idea to complain to the local rcmp staff sgt?
read the section 102 first. and ask if they had a public safety concern?
if not they cant push it too far.
The RCMP probably got a complaint.
Have an argument with the significant other or anyone else who knows you have guns lately?
Any neighbors or passers-bye see you carrying guns to and from the car or spot a gun in your home through a window?
How about guns left in your car being observed by others?
One of the guys at my club said there is a new rule of thumb in Canada now that if the police enter your home on a gun call they will be leaving with your guns and supported his statement with a couple of rather scary examples.
This guy is well grounded and no off the wall paranoid and I hate to say it but I'd be kinda leery about letting the police in under similar circumstances after listening to his story.
I sincerely hope that the relationship between the police and the Canadian community of legal firearms owners hasn't deteriorated to that extent.
If it has you can blame the Liberals and Bill C-68 for "criminalizing" legal ownership of firearms in Canada.
Have an argument with the significant other or anyone else who knows you have guns lately?
Any neighbors or passers-bye see you carrying guns to and from the car or spot a gun in your home through a window?
How about guns left in your car being observed by others?
One of the guys at my club said there is a new rule of thumb in Canada now that if the police enter your home on a gun call they will be leaving with your guns and supported his statement with a couple of rather scary examples.
This guy is well grounded and no off the wall paranoid and I hate to say it but I'd be kinda leery about letting the police in under similar circumstances after listening to his story.
I sincerely hope that the relationship between the police and the Canadian community of legal firearms owners hasn't deteriorated to that extent.
If it has you can blame the Liberals and Bill C-68 for "criminalizing" legal ownership of firearms in Canada.
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