The "Real Stuff" VS. "Airsoft Stuff"

hfp75

hfp75

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With the whole M305 craze I am looking for parts that will do what I am looking for along with alot of you. I have read a thread about "bob" I think that put an Airsoft - Kingarms (http://www.kingarms.com/productpage.asp?prodid=361) on his rifle because the real one by Knights (http://www.knightarmco.com/knightscatalog.pdf) is hard to find and really expensive.

Really what does it matter? tensile strength, the look? how about the price? I know that Daves has both, after an extensive convo with the guy at the desk who had one in his left hand and one in his right - he could not find any differences. In fact he said the "fake one" actually looked better. Seems rediculous doesnt it?

I decided to check the types of metals that both are made from - machined aluminum. Well what type of aluminum? I am workin on it!!!!! I will post my results here in the next day or so when I get it figured out.

Hans

PS - what is the difference between these items?

http://www.1337tactical.com/pro-show.asp?column_cat_id=3&column_id=11
http://www.jagprecision.com/products.php (you'll have to find the same item)

One is "said" to be for "real" guns and one is "said" to be for air guns....

seems redonkulous......
 
effinggoof said:
My friends would make fun of me for having anything related to airsoft on my rifle.
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I'd make fun of them for spending way more on something I can get for a lot cheaper that does the exact same thing. ;)
 
I've always wondered that as well... what makes a 'genuine' that much better if the clone is made with the same material?

Obviously, tolerances would need to be compared, original to clone.

Who knows? Maybe 'Tokyo Marui' will be the next 'Norinco' of the 'Accessories' community... ;)
 
I don't know specifically about this product, but I've seen some airsoft attachments marketed as real products for the AR.

The differences were dimentional & the attachment system didn't have all of the same features. Sitting side by each with the real thing, the differences were obvious.

I also doubt that the airsoft stuff is heat treated. Aluminum is available in different alloys just like steel (ie, different alloys have different properties [wear characteristics, tensile & deformation ect]).

D
 
I play airsoft and and have many guns, some of which are for sale due to my new addiction hehehe

In most situations it's a case robustness. They will usually function the same as the "real deal" but won't take the same amount of abuse.

It really depends on your application, and how hard you charge.

Some of my airsoft stuff has lasted through 24 and 48 hour games in Muskoka bush.

Some hasn't ;)
 
Bottom line, would you trust your life on a product that was designed with the sole intention of visually imitating the real thing? You truly get what you pay for, for example the original KAC RAS system was designed according to stringent military specifications, undergone numerous trials, it's design is the result of thousands of man hours of R&D, while your airsoft counterpart was reverse-engineered and sloppily molded to resemble the original. If you feel that putting down $500 for a rail system that will see little range time is a little excessive, there's no reason not to get the airsoft replica. Oh wait, there is.. You're supporting theft of intellectucal property, possibly patent infringment and the destruction of the manufacturing sector in North America...
 
koalorka said:
Oh wait, there is.. You're supporting theft of intellectucal property, possibly patent infringment and the destruction of the manufacturing sector in North America...
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Good point..and one that's often overlooked in airsoft. Most of this stuff is cheap because it's coming from China or "China like" countries with no regard to intelectual property rights.....
 
Recently got the ARMS#17 DR and the ARMS#19 replicas from G&P and King Arms respectively. #17 copy seems CNC machined while #19 copy looks like cast. The throw lever system and and cross-bar of #19 replica is better than that of G&P #17, but the finish is nicer on the G&P product.
Add to put a piece of electrical tape on the rail of #17 so that my YHM bipod adapter wouldn't wobble... rails are off-spec, not surprisingly...
Anyway, I also use the Leupold Mark4 LR/T M1 scope copy and "airsoft" grade Accushot Premium rings... and my overall verdict is : they work ! for a range gun (civilian AR15). Wouldn't go to war with these and i would be reluctant to go hunting, but if you have a really tight budget, than it is an option to consider.
I'm also thinking of trying out that King Arms M14 KAC style RAS...
 
Sniper1 said:
Recently got the ARMS#17 DR and the ARMS#19 replicas from G&P and King Arms respectively. #17 copy seems CNC machined while #19 copy looks like cast. The throw lever system and and cross-bar of #19 replica is better than that of G&P #17, but the finish is nicer on the G&P product.
Add to put a piece of electrical tape on the rail of #17 so that my YHM bipod adapter wouldn't wobble... rails are off-spec, not surprisingly...
Anyway, I also use the Leupold Mark4 LR/T M1 scope copy and "airsoft" grade Accushot Premium rings... and my overall verdict is : they work ! for a range gun (civilian AR15). Wouldn't go to war with these and i would be reluctant to go hunting, but if you have a really tight budget, than it is an option to consider.
I'm also thinking of trying out that King Arms M14 KAC style RAS...
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As with most things, if you buy these knock offs, expect to pay more in the long run. The fact that it works does not mean it will continue to work. I would rather see someone spend the money on ammo rather than cheap knocks off which are stealing the designs of name brand manufacturers. I have seen too my cheap scopes fail on the range, mounts come loose etc to know that in the end game you would be farther ahead with the real stuff or sticking with iron sights and more ammo. If you are after the "look" like an airsoft...then knock yourself out...

Jeff
 
2 camps

Well,

There are deffinatly different motivations here for the choices. I have decided to chance it. I ordered a "Guarder M14 RAS" for 200 bones. If it works its mine if it will not, the seller has offered to take it back and refund my cash. NICE DEAL!!!!!!!!!!

It is supposidly.... 100% CNC machined from 6061 aluminum, MIL-Spec, with rear rail, and includes various pannels for gripping/coverage. It seems to be the best one on the market, I have found 4 other manufacturers and through researching the products the "Guarder" product seems to be the highest quality for almost the same price. I have an inquiry into Knights about the metal that their RAS is made from and they are checking, should hear from them soon. When I know I will post it here.

NOW, I know that there is copyright... honorariums ect ect that will drive people to purchase the "real deal" but come on... NO ONE can complain.... doesnt everyone have an M305 from china? The pot should not call the kettle black....

Hans
 
There is no copyright on the M14 design. There is however patents on ACOGs, Aimpoints, KAC RAS etc. As I said before, when it fails on a three gun match or on a hunt, you get what you paid for. If your more concerned about the "look" for play, then have at it. You can simplify the argument any way you want, the stuff is breaking copyrights and patents. The is no black kettle here....

Jeff
 
Metal Type

I have gotten back some info that I have been looking for.

The 'real' Knights M14/M1A RAS is made from 6061 T6 Aluminum.

The Guarder M14/M1A RAS is made from 6061 Aluminum.

Just need to see if the Guarder also has T6 (temper rating) they might not have felt it important to document.... I will do my best to find out.....

Shear strength for O temper is 12 ksi and for T 6 temper it is 30, ksi

ksi
symbol for kips (kilopounds) per square foot or per square inch, traditional engineering units of pressure or stress. 1 ksi = 6.894 757 megapascals (MPa). These units are often used to express the strength of materials (meaning the maximum pressure the material can resist).

1 kilo pounds per square inch = 1 ksi
1 ksi = 1000 psi

Either way I can hardly wait for it to arrive.

Hans

ps-all of this was what I have been able to put together.....
 
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hfp75 said:
It is supposidly.... 100% CNC machined from 6061 aluminum, MIL-Spec, with rear rail, and includes various pannels for gripping/coverage.
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I doubt that a civilian toy manufacturer from Taiwan would be able to produce an airsoft accessory according to military specifications. In this case it's probably just a marketing term for the kiddie SWAT wannabee's. Here's an example of the Knight-owned patent on the Rail Adapter Hangaurd System: http://www.quarterbore.com/library/pdf_files/us05826363.pdf. To prove my point here's another document on the Picatinny Rail System itself that KAC had to meet in order to comply with Mil-Spec requirements: http://www.quarterbore.com/library/pdf_files/mil-std-1913.pdf. Like I said, it's a precise business and replicas will only remain, well...model replicas.
 
There are deffinatly different motivations here for the choices. I have decided to chance it. I ordered a "Guarder M14 RAS" for 200 bones. If it works its mine if it will not, the seller has offered to take it back and refund my cash. NICE DEAL!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

200 bucks for an AIRSOFT scope mount does not seem like much of a deal to me.
 
hfp75 said:
Well,

There are deffinatly different motivations here for the choices. I have decided to chance it. I ordered a "Guarder M14 RAS" for 200 bones. If it works its mine if it will not, the seller has offered to take it back and refund my cash. NICE DEAL!!!!!!!!!!

It is supposidly.... 100% CNC machined from 6061 aluminum, MIL-Spec, with rear rail, and includes various pannels for gripping/coverage. It seems to be the best one on the market, I have found 4 other manufacturers and through researching the products the "Guarder" product seems to be the highest quality for almost the same price. I have an inquiry into Knights about the metal that their RAS is made from and they are checking, should hear from them soon. When I know I will post it here.

NOW, I know that there is copyright... honorariums ect ect that will drive people to purchase the "real deal" but come on... NO ONE can complain.... doesnt everyone have an M305 from china? The pot should not call the kettle black....

Hans
Click to expand...

WHats wrong with being black, eh?? ** JOKE **
 
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