I would fight it, get legal advice from a lawyer on the best way to proceed. I can't believe they are not letting you have it from an arrest that you weren't really charged for. Now you said that you had some drug charges in the past which makes me believe that it was more a coke charge than a pot charge. Cause really, who gives and phuck about pot.
The scariest/weirdest thing just happened with my application process. please help!
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Pain pills. Started many years ago with a legitimate prescription from my doctor.
The CFO told me they have a saying in their office, which goes "just because someone was found not guilty, or the charges were dropped, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
They base all of their decisions on what happenned in the police reports, rather than what happens in court.
I think that is somewhat flawed. Wondering what others think.
The CFO told me they have a saying in their office, which goes "just because someone was found not guilty, or the charges were dropped, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
They base all of their decisions on what happenned in the police reports, rather than what happens in court.
I think that is somewhat flawed. Wondering what others think.
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Is that even legal?
Ouch.
Sorry to hear it.
Were you violent during your arrest?
Have you sought medical attention for your addictions (rehab?)
If it were me, I would be seeking the decision in writing, and then appealing it through the appropriate channels (is that even possible?)
I have no real knowledge of the inner workings of that decision making process, but I would suspect that perhaps someone called the public safety line about your application.
Either that, or one of your references gave a worrisome reference for you.
It doesn't make sense to me that they can hold withdrawn charges against you like that.
Sorry to hear it.
Were you violent during your arrest?
Have you sought medical attention for your addictions (rehab?)
If it were me, I would be seeking the decision in writing, and then appealing it through the appropriate channels (is that even possible?)
I have no real knowledge of the inner workings of that decision making process, but I would suspect that perhaps someone called the public safety line about your application.
Either that, or one of your references gave a worrisome reference for you.
It doesn't make sense to me that they can hold withdrawn charges against you like that.
That's a crock of shiit. I'd be fighting that.
I was not violent at all during my arrest. I have never been violent, ever. And my references interviews went perfectly. They are my good friends. The officer explained to me exactly why I was being denied, and it is because I have shown repeated non-compliance with the law. Even though I've never been convicted of anything, they see the arrests, and cannot ignore that.
They also see that I have gotten many traffic tickets in my past, (mainly they were all many years ago), and they said "if I can't obey even the simplest of laws (ie: my traffic tickets like speeding, seat belt, expired sticker) then how am I supposed to store and transport a firearm properly?
That's exactly what he said to me. He said collectively, all of my brushes with the law in the past (traffic and criminal) has disqualified me from owning a PAL, even though 90% of my traffic charges were withdrawn in court, and both of my criminal charges were withdrawn in court. I have no convictions for any of this stuff. They're going on the information that's in the police reports and the charges themselves, not the outcomes in court. Like I said I was told by the CFO "we have a saying in this office, just because someone was found not guilty, or their charge was withdrawn, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
The problem is, I don't have the money to fight this, and to pay a firearms lawyer to appeal this decision. I don't even know if that's possible. And they're telling me I will be qualified in 3 years if I apply again, so I'm also worried if I try to fight their decision, that it would take years in court anyway, and could just be a waste of money, whereas if I just be patient and wait 3 years, I will get my PAL.
I just can't believe they're allowed to make their decisions based on charges, rather than the outcomes of those charges in court.
They also see that I have gotten many traffic tickets in my past, (mainly they were all many years ago), and they said "if I can't obey even the simplest of laws (ie: my traffic tickets like speeding, seat belt, expired sticker) then how am I supposed to store and transport a firearm properly?
That's exactly what he said to me. He said collectively, all of my brushes with the law in the past (traffic and criminal) has disqualified me from owning a PAL, even though 90% of my traffic charges were withdrawn in court, and both of my criminal charges were withdrawn in court. I have no convictions for any of this stuff. They're going on the information that's in the police reports and the charges themselves, not the outcomes in court. Like I said I was told by the CFO "we have a saying in this office, just because someone was found not guilty, or their charge was withdrawn, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
The problem is, I don't have the money to fight this, and to pay a firearms lawyer to appeal this decision. I don't even know if that's possible. And they're telling me I will be qualified in 3 years if I apply again, so I'm also worried if I try to fight their decision, that it would take years in court anyway, and could just be a waste of money, whereas if I just be patient and wait 3 years, I will get my PAL.
I just can't believe they're allowed to make their decisions based on charges, rather than the outcomes of those charges in court.
Ok, so i see a person who is presenting one side of an incident , and in my experience it's very biased in the teller's favor. Its always important in these situations not to look at what happened but why.
Why is your behaviour so different from most others on here, who have no such issues?
Its because you cannot regulate your behaviour. You got caught out on it and now your bitter about the consequences.
Your trying to use technicalites to get out of these consequences, instead of showing a long term pattern of approperiate behaviour, like most law abiding people do and have the record to prove it.
This often stems from someones personality. Its often called anti-social personality.
Its never your fault. Its the system right? Everyone just against you.
You can't afford a lawyer, but guns are a priority for you.
How about getting a better job and stable life?
I know, i know, you are trying right? Well, thats not what it looks like on paper to those who matter. Its just your assertion against the proponderence of evidence.
I know because I hear this each and every work day.
At this point, i expect some terse answer about how i don't know you. I don't, but i know your type( you told your story), because people tell me this jazz all day, and when i read their chart, its all BS.
The authorites have read your chart. They are calling you on your BS.
Nice of you to try to convince us of otherwise in an attempt to get support for your plan to get firearms legally.
No money for lawyer, but money for guns.
Right.
Why is your behaviour so different from most others on here, who have no such issues?
Its because you cannot regulate your behaviour. You got caught out on it and now your bitter about the consequences.
Your trying to use technicalites to get out of these consequences, instead of showing a long term pattern of approperiate behaviour, like most law abiding people do and have the record to prove it.
This often stems from someones personality. Its often called anti-social personality.
Its never your fault. Its the system right? Everyone just against you.
You can't afford a lawyer, but guns are a priority for you.
How about getting a better job and stable life?
I know, i know, you are trying right? Well, thats not what it looks like on paper to those who matter. Its just your assertion against the proponderence of evidence.
I know because I hear this each and every work day.
At this point, i expect some terse answer about how i don't know you. I don't, but i know your type( you told your story), because people tell me this jazz all day, and when i read their chart, its all BS.
The authorites have read your chart. They are calling you on your BS.
Nice of you to try to convince us of otherwise in an attempt to get support for your plan to get firearms legally.
No money for lawyer, but money for guns.
Right.
That infraction is present.
Every formal interaction with the police is recorded. And it starts with "Im going to need identification". The you're in.
If the cop didn't like your tone during a traffic stop, it gets noted for the next cop who pulls you over.
Every time you get pulled over, ticketed, had someone call the police on you for the most frivolous reason, charged or not, it gets recorded. If you get flagged during an application, they'll run CPIC query. Depending on your age and interactions with the police, don't be surprised to see folders of info piled next to CFO if he/she requests a meeting.
Sometimes the CFO is a former cop, so they know alot of charges are pressed for stupid reasons like ego or the cop is insecure about themselves and need to validate a mediocre existence.
In my experience, the CFO isn't looking for reasons to deny your application, but has to jump through hoops and is looking for you to help the process along so that you get approved.
In this case, someone presented themselves in person at your home. A good sign. A "DENIED" letter is easier sent from the comfort of an office. Given the info they had, he probably wanted to see how/where you lived.
There's good advice here. I'd add, rationalize what happened, be factual, but don't talk too much.
Sit up straight. Arms open. Listen, never interrupt. They may make statements to gauge if you've got a temper. Be cool as yu would with a friend. Don't swear or used lingo.
Good luck!
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As said earlier, evertime they ask for you birthday, You get entered into CPIC. They have a system of flags with green being positive contact and red being negative contact. It is better to have more green flags if you want a PAL or even more green flags if you want a RPAL. While it may or may not be right, They do live within their laws when making decisions that could cost any one of us our life. While the charges may have been dropped or even if convicted of a minor charge what if the mafia guy Teflon Don wanted to go legit. That guy had numerous suspicions and charges laid but his lawyer got him off, Hence the name TEFLON. Should he be approved cause they got nothing but suspicion. Even if you attempt suicide and aren't charged but had an interaction from the RCMP you would be denied. Reason being you could be a danger to yourself. If you had such an interaction, YOU are now inadmissible to the USA as they will know. charged or not. One way to legitimately add green flags is to report crimes. Wasn't that long ago I reported a neighbors house being burglarized. And the guy who lives there is in jail for ###ual assault. Even told the officer I had misgivings about calling due to his charges but were it me I'd want my stuff preserved. Never know he could be the next TEFLON.
lol...not when guns are involved...
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Wow... very helpful.
What's next? You gonna spend some time at the suicide help-line and talk people into killing themselves?
You're a pretty miserable person. Sure hope you don't work in a field "helping people", like... mental health or something.
Thanks for stopping by...
Whaaaaaat??? I have no idea where you're getting your information, but that was really a fun read.
You mind if I ask what kind of charge this was exactly? I saw you mentioned painkillers, but did not elaborate. I have some old stuff on my record as well(pot possession), that I didn't think would be an issue. My application was received today, maybe I shouldn't get my hopes up
You seem to have a good handle on the situation, and maybe he made some good points in his explanation to you. You have multiple arrests in the past - and I kind of get the impression he's hinting strongly that with *multiple* past issues - they want to see five years without any further shenanigans.
A cop must have some reasonable belief that laying a charge is warranted when they do - and although that is not a court finding against you, some level of evidence is required for them to do so. So there is some truth to the 'no conviction didn't mean it didn't happen' philosophy he shared with you.
I suppose if you are completely honest with yourself - you already know that inherently.
On the up side, you're not coming across as being all bent out of shape about it and generally being loud and obnoxious.
Cuz I bet lots of others on here would be crying a river.
When you say your charges were "Withdrawn" Dave, does that mean you did diversion? if so those things stay on your record.. (When I was a youth I got some drug charges, same sounding as you) and at a later date in court (for a different scenario, im not going into detail) they brought up my charges as a youth...(which i thought was taken off the record at 18) So my thinking is that if they could pull up charges that were WITHDRAWN from me as a YOUTH, then they will definately know about your charges. People can be totally different from phone, to e-mail, to real conversation.. Sounds like they just want to double check, and hopefully they wont deny you as long as you present yourself well.
Goodluck!
Goodluck!
It's all about "Time Since"...I've got an assault causing bodily harm on my record and did 3 months inside when I was 18...My lawyer argued at the time that hunting was part of my family culture and got the "no firearm or weapon possession for 5 years" stipulation dropped so I could still go to the hunt camp... 10 years later I was approved for my PAL without much hassle, and I also hold level 2 security clearance...and my driving record looks like I can't "follow simple laws" either...ie $450/month insurance for a minivan...Let it go, give it the 3 years, spend it saving up for better firearms, then try again...letting it take more time only means you can be the guy with a RobArms instead of a bubba'd SKS, or a Stag instead of a Norinco...
About as helpfull as your comment.
Someone pass the butter for the
opcorn: pleaseButtered Fingers...I mean Tight Groups,
Rob
Correct!
For those who foolishly support licensing, gun ownership is illegal. Unless you can obtain, for payment, a card which temporarily allows you to break the law.
Agreed that the process worked. Keep your nose clean.
