IchBinEinSniper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brockvegas
What about the Tikka T3 Battue Lite in 308? Nice action... About $875 and readily available.
The Scout Rifle
- Thread starter Meph
- Start date
It undoubtedly would be a handy lil' rig.
Col. Cooper however is the man who "tagged" the scout concept, and I doubt the BLR is what he had in mind.
Well, I'm not sure what "tagged" means, but I'm under the impression that what he actually did was specify a set of qualities: weight, length, sighting system, sling system, chambering, minimum accuracy. The BLR fulfills all these specifications. As far as what "he had in mind" beyond that... can you direct me to the source that gave you the impression a BLR would be somehow inappropriate?
h ttp://www.donath.org/Rants/ScoutRifleTaxonomy/
h ttp://home.netcom.com/~chingesh/scoutconference.html
h ttp://home.netcom.com/~chingesh/scoutrifle.html#What
If the BLR suits your idea of a scout rifle then fill your boots.
However, the proceedings of the First Scout Rifle Conference ... (as recorded and transcribed by Jeff Cooper, 14 December 1983) specify a bolt action as the chosen platform of the scout rifle.
This subject has been done to death on intranet forums, and while some folks build a rifle they feel fits the "scout" profile most fall short in some area.
Don't just cherry pick the bits from those links that support your argument. There's a whole raft of information in there that support a lever action for a scout rifle:
The BLR does have such an action.
Oh, look at that. A particular model of lever action that was considered to be a good candidate.
Another example of a suitable lever rifle, deficient in one area (the caliber) that the BLR is not.
And here's what the man said about all the actions available at the time:
And that would have included the 600 that he built the first example from. So there's really no point agonizing over the meaning of a "true" scout rifle. The heart of the matter was the purpose and general performance characteristics of the rifle. Not the technical details regarding how that might be acheived.
The BLR does have such an action.
Oh, look at that. A particular model of lever action that was considered to be a good candidate.
Another example of a suitable lever rifle, deficient in one area (the caliber) that the BLR is not.
And here's what the man said about all the actions available at the time:
And that would have included the 600 that he built the first example from. So there's really no point agonizing over the meaning of a "true" scout rifle. The heart of the matter was the purpose and general performance characteristics of the rifle. Not the technical details regarding how that might be acheived.
I provided the pages in entirety,looks to me as if you are the one cherry-picking Flick.
Now that I have re-read your choice excerpts I have to wholeheartedly agree, someone call browning and get them to build a BLR Scout!.
The BLR has been with us since 1969, subtle changes brought us the model 81 in 1981. I find it quite perplexing that during a large convention in 1983 of attendees including gunsmiths, stocksmiths, journalists, marksmanship instructors, inventors ,hunters and the man himself to define the scout rifle that the current production BLR rifle was somehow overlooked? As I said before, if the BLR fits YOUR idea of a scout rifle enjoy your build and be sure to post pics.
I don't share your interpretation and won't pretend to. What's futile about our argument is the only man who could settle the matter has been dead for three years
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Settling the Matter
I'd have to say that the only one who could settle the matter is the person who initiated the discussion in the first place, Meph. It would depend on what he, Meph, was looking for, or how closely he chooses to follow some idealized formula for what is, or is not a "Scout Rifle". I mean if they're holding conventions on the subject, it sounds like the "egg-spurts" haven't really decided yet either. From what I've seen on this post, some very good candidate rifles have been put forward by fellow CGNer's and in the end the only "True Expert" in this matter, Meph, will decide, now won't he.
By the way, I'm still siding with Flick on this.
I'd have to say that the only one who could settle the matter is the person who initiated the discussion in the first place, Meph. It would depend on what he, Meph, was looking for, or how closely he chooses to follow some idealized formula for what is, or is not a "Scout Rifle". I mean if they're holding conventions on the subject, it sounds like the "egg-spurts" haven't really decided yet either. From what I've seen on this post, some very good candidate rifles have been put forward by fellow CGNer's and in the end the only "True Expert" in this matter, Meph, will decide, now won't he.
By the way, I'm still siding with Flick on this.
Swedish M38 Mauser 6.5 x 55with B Square mount - now sporting a Leupold LER scope. Built for my daughter when she was 12 - in order to prevent scope eye - we have killed three deer with it.
If you were totally hung up on 308, Isreali mausers show up regularly and someone has a b square mount and scope in the EE right now.
If you were totally hung up on 308, Isreali mausers show up regularly and someone has a b square mount and scope in the EE right now.
I'd have to say that the only one who could settle the matter is the person who initiated the discussion in the first place, Meph. It would depend on what he, Meph, was looking for, or how closely he chooses to follow some idealized formula for what is, or is not a "Scout Rifle". I mean if they're holding conventions on the subject, it sounds like the "egg-spurts" haven't really decided yet either. From what I've seen on this post, some very good candidate rifles have been put forward by fellow CGNer's and in the end the only "True Expert" in this matter, Meph, will decide, now won't he.
By the way, I'm still siding with Flick on this.
BINGO! Who really cares what any of us think a good scout rifle would be? Its all up to Meph, and if he likes a BLR then he'd go for one. I wouldn't but who really cares? Regardless of what a scout rifle "really is". Those experts are not any of us and neither will they have to live with Meph's, mine or your choice for a scout rifle. Lets ask him this: do you want a scout rifle for the sole purpose of having an authentic piece of expert recommended equipment, or something that fits you, and serves the use?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leOlN9MiIPc
The thing about the Scout is that Cooper did have a quasi military idea in mind. It was supposed to be the kind of all around rifle that would have been useful in action also. BLRs aren't probably that rifle, but they might well be a good base for a lot of the field applications Cooper had in mind. Cooper did bless the Co-pilot not as a classic scout, but as a scout-north, or something. He was also very supportive of levers in general since while they aren't scouts, they are fast and accurate in somewhat the same way. He liked the Savage (pretty ideal in his mind), the 94 (preferable to the Kalashnikov), and came up with the Brooklyn Special idea.
I really like the Scout concept but Cooper started to add a variety of things to it that just cluttered the idea up. The ultimate example being the bi-pod. Maybe the Steyr by-pod is great, but it doesn't really fit the overall concept. For 99% of users (short of the DOD reaching out for it), the tactical and max redundancy stuff was not as important as a powerful light rifle that could be shot in the field with the accuracy of a rifle and the feel of a shotgun. The worst thing about the majority of the pretenders is the lack of the proper stock and scope height. Far too many have a the scope too high, and the comb too low. Getting the cope low and strong, and neat is pretty much a custom option.
Who sells the Steyr Scout in Canada?
The thing about the Scout is that Cooper did have a quasi military idea in mind. It was supposed to be the kind of all around rifle that would have been useful in action also. BLRs aren't probably that rifle, but they might well be a good base for a lot of the field applications Cooper had in mind. Cooper did bless the Co-pilot not as a classic scout, but as a scout-north, or something. He was also very supportive of levers in general since while they aren't scouts, they are fast and accurate in somewhat the same way. He liked the Savage (pretty ideal in his mind), the 94 (preferable to the Kalashnikov), and came up with the Brooklyn Special idea.
I really like the Scout concept but Cooper started to add a variety of things to it that just cluttered the idea up. The ultimate example being the bi-pod. Maybe the Steyr by-pod is great, but it doesn't really fit the overall concept. For 99% of users (short of the DOD reaching out for it), the tactical and max redundancy stuff was not as important as a powerful light rifle that could be shot in the field with the accuracy of a rifle and the feel of a shotgun. The worst thing about the majority of the pretenders is the lack of the proper stock and scope height. Far too many have a the scope too high, and the comb too low. Getting the cope low and strong, and neat is pretty much a custom option.
Who sells the Steyr Scout in Canada?
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
do you base this on actual experience with a Scout rifle, or is it the typical knee-jerk fudd reaction based entirely on ignorant misconceptions?
gunrunner8
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, B.C.
I been useing my lh 788 scout since early 90'. To bad I can't post pictures, but mine has take of lightweight Savage 19" long 308 Win barrel, 2 3/4x Burris scout scope, 13 1/4" lop, ball bearing mounts with nylon sling, solid 1/2" rubber recoil pad, modifyied action and barrel coated in teflon, original wood stock painted with black epoxy with grit, with total lenght of 38 1/2" and weights only 6 1/2lbs! That is my perfect example of scout rifle, its not only portable, light and quick but also very accurate. Within 300yds and when supported, that rifle terminates any animal with 1 shot. I was fascinated with the scout idea in the late 80', there was nothing like that on the market to buy, so I build it my own and the idea still works today, after more than 2 decades passed by.
Edward Teach
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- who cares?
I never tire of seeing that picture, she's a beauty. I love my Guide...but she's definitely a chunky-monkey. I'm guessing we're a teensy bit over the Colonels' max weight spec. of seven and a half pounds?
