the taboo of predator hunting
- Thread starter bigdawg
- Start date
Predators have their place and are a very important part of the big picture. Personally I have never shot a coyote though I had many chances. I guess I just never had a good enough reason. Having said that, if I seen evidence of over predation I would have to reassess the situation.
We had to fence our property to keep the deer out and it also kept out the coyotes. The rodent population exploded. To watch a coyote mousing in a field is watching one of the finest mouse control systems around.
We had to fence our property to keep the deer out and it also kept out the coyotes. The rodent population exploded. To watch a coyote mousing in a field is watching one of the finest mouse control systems around.
Using the fur is good enough reason no need to eat them too unless it floated your boat. In Southern Alberta there coyote predation on antelop fawns directly impacts the herd.
Coyote are a double edged sword yes they keep rodent populations down but instead of dying off in sequence with thier marjor prey spiecies. They move to more problematic prey species (agricultural) avoiding the natural boom bust cycle.
Besideds fur is way greener of a way of getting a winter coat that anything manmade, Fur is not murder it is green.
And to answer a prevous post yes lots of coyotes are shot and left mostly shot as entertainment during deer season(under the guise of predator control). The coyote seems to teeter between game animal and varmint depending on who you ask, no one ever asks what I do with the gophers I shoot, so what makes the coyote different.
Here is the kicker of actually effect population you need to take about 75% of the local poulation,and even that is only temporary there are so mobile there will be another group there by next year. Unlike other predators coyotes are massivly prolific, adaptive(to food sources), and mobile there was a great paper from a guy in BC about this, i'll see if I can find the link.
Coyote are a double edged sword yes they keep rodent populations down but instead of dying off in sequence with thier marjor prey spiecies. They move to more problematic prey species (agricultural) avoiding the natural boom bust cycle.
Besideds fur is way greener of a way of getting a winter coat that anything manmade, Fur is not murder it is green.
And to answer a prevous post yes lots of coyotes are shot and left mostly shot as entertainment during deer season(under the guise of predator control). The coyote seems to teeter between game animal and varmint depending on who you ask, no one ever asks what I do with the gophers I shoot, so what makes the coyote different.
Here is the kicker of actually effect population you need to take about 75% of the local poulation,and even that is only temporary there are so mobile there will be another group there by next year. Unlike other predators coyotes are massivly prolific, adaptive(to food sources), and mobile there was a great paper from a guy in BC about this, i'll see if I can find the link.
Chrislau76239
New member
- Location
- Langley, British Columbia
I just got me a nice little .243 that I'm setting up for some coyote hunting. Will be my first time predator hunting. Although I think I'll have to drive a little farther than I'd like cuz even being in Langley I think I might be to close to the city to use firearms. Even though I called in yotes from the green belt down the street from me when I was practicing my calling.
I think some of the predators need a little pressure, the coyotes have exploded in their numbers because there is less competition from other predators like wolfs whose numbers have dropped. eeh just my two cents.
aulrich is the link your looking for this:
http://www.coyotecanada.ca/
I think some of the predators need a little pressure, the coyotes have exploded in their numbers because there is less competition from other predators like wolfs whose numbers have dropped. eeh just my two cents.
aulrich is the link your looking for this:
http://www.coyotecanada.ca/
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
No taboo in my books! The first furry critter to fall to my then NIB, .222 calibre, Remington 788 bolt action, was a young wolf. 
As far as I know in November 1988, I was one of the last hunters in the Petawawa Township to actually receive a wolf bounty cheque!
As far as I know in November 1988, I was one of the last hunters in the Petawawa Township to actually receive a wolf bounty cheque!
My 2 cents... (background - born and raised in Vancouver, still here. I shoot handguns and rifles at the range/new to the sport. I'm taking my hunting course this summer to hunt this fall.)
I wouldn't kill a bear or cougar - or anything bigger than a human - like a lion etc. Strikes me as filling a need to dominate/kill a superior bigger animal. Sure you could eat a bear or cougar, but I'm guessing that's not the primary motivation. I'm not into trophy mounts either. If your choice is to go and shoot a big predator, and you do so ethically, with fair chase etc, I'm not going to complain - it's just not for me. That said - if you've killed a bear and have a mount and tons of photos, I don't see why you'd need to take another. So six bear kills just for sport would worry me. If a bear was a physical threat say at a camp, or was a garbage bear and had to be shot rather than moved, I'd have no problem with that.
Coyote and wolf I'd shoot if I live in more rural areas where population control was required either directly by me or by others in the area. I'm all good to go on a gopher shoot.
I look forward to hunting for a healthy and sustainable meat supply. Meat doesn't come from the supermarket and fewer people would eat meat if they had to harvest their own animal. Let alone how some animals are processed. Ever buy a whole chicken that comes with a broken drumstick? Ugh! I've heard of mad cow but never mad deer or caribou. I'm an avid cook and have found moose, bison, venison, caribou and duck at a couple butchers around town and they have only whet my appetite.
I wouldn't kill a bear or cougar - or anything bigger than a human - like a lion etc. Strikes me as filling a need to dominate/kill a superior bigger animal. Sure you could eat a bear or cougar, but I'm guessing that's not the primary motivation. I'm not into trophy mounts either. If your choice is to go and shoot a big predator, and you do so ethically, with fair chase etc, I'm not going to complain - it's just not for me. That said - if you've killed a bear and have a mount and tons of photos, I don't see why you'd need to take another. So six bear kills just for sport would worry me. If a bear was a physical threat say at a camp, or was a garbage bear and had to be shot rather than moved, I'd have no problem with that.
Coyote and wolf I'd shoot if I live in more rural areas where population control was required either directly by me or by others in the area. I'm all good to go on a gopher shoot.
I look forward to hunting for a healthy and sustainable meat supply. Meat doesn't come from the supermarket and fewer people would eat meat if they had to harvest their own animal. Let alone how some animals are processed. Ever buy a whole chicken that comes with a broken drumstick? Ugh! I've heard of mad cow but never mad deer or caribou. I'm an avid cook and have found moose, bison, venison, caribou and duck at a couple butchers around town and they have only whet my appetite.
- Location
- South Cariboo, BC
Coyotes produce more young when their numbers are depleting, so heavy hunting doesn't wipe them out. Around here the population is out of balance and I've been seeing far fewer fawns survive the summers than in the past. Calves are paying the price as well.
We'd see 6-8 yotes hunting as a group in the field out front. If that was left to continue to grow at that rate other species would be hit hard and the coyotes themselves would be dying horrible deaths as mange and other desease too hold of the population.
I took 8 coyotes off of this ranch and you wouldn't believe the numbers that were howling here last night. Lots of young ones could be heard learning to sing.
The Mulie does actually sleep around my house and under my bedroom window while pregnant or with fawns that are extremely young and vulnerable. They seem to know that coyotes aren't going to live long if they try hunting near my house.
We'd see 6-8 yotes hunting as a group in the field out front. If that was left to continue to grow at that rate other species would be hit hard and the coyotes themselves would be dying horrible deaths as mange and other desease too hold of the population.
I took 8 coyotes off of this ranch and you wouldn't believe the numbers that were howling here last night. Lots of young ones could be heard learning to sing.
The Mulie does actually sleep around my house and under my bedroom window while pregnant or with fawns that are extremely young and vulnerable. They seem to know that coyotes aren't going to live long if they try hunting near my house.
- Location
- AB foothills
finn_ethan said:
I love how some people try and justify what they will shoot and what they wont. Killing an animal, is killing an animal.
Either you are a hunter or your not, get off the fence.
Why cant people understand that thier ethics are thiers alone?
"Hunting, like religion, is incomplete without death. Indeed it is a religion, older, deeper and more visceral than Judaism or Christianity or even Islam, as old at least as the Pleistocene cave paintings of the Dordogne or Altamira. It has its own prayers of thanks coupled with a plea for forgiveness each time we kill what we seek; its own dark sacraments and rituals and symbols; its own distinctive art." Robert Jones
George
George
glang1 said:
Agreed. For most of the hunters that I know, being in the woods for a hunt is a spiritual experience. They may not necesarily put it in those terms, but the experience is a form of sacriment. And, yes, it isn't hunting without at least the potential for the killing of a game animal.
I personally think that humans have a very deep and primitive connection to the hunt. Most urbanites have become disconnected from it but it is still there in their attraction to and affection for animals (whether they be dogs and cats or the notion of "Bambi")
Having said that, I think that killing varmints (like gophers) falls into a completely different category. It's basically slaughtering vermin and that's pretty hard to feel "spiritual" about. (although there's something deeply satisfying about popping a gopher at 300 yards
)
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
crazy_davey said:
This is to true.
Get off the fence X2
I disagree that being a hunter means you're all or nothing with regards to killing all animals under the sun. (That I disagree doesn't mean I'm saying you're wrong. And my ethics or code - same thing. I like a good discussion... and this is a meaty topic. Bad pun sorry...)
"Killing and animal is killing an animal" and the hunt being a religious experience are IMHO exact opposites. Doing a job like working a bolt-gun killing cattle or helping a farmer sort out a gopher problem is killing an animal. No sport, no emotion, mild memories. (Ok, pink gopher mist would be kinda fun
)
A hunt as I'd describe it is way more than just killing an animal. I haven't yet felt the adrenaline of the hunt and look forward to the deep and meaningful, memorable, religious as you've said, experience that it is. A bow hunter, a muzzle loader and city dwelling lever action shooting types like me each make decisions of how to approach the kill portion of the hunt - making each experience unique to themselves. The choice of animal is also critical to the experience. People choose different animals for different reasons.
I think that for me a fifth deer kill will be similar to a fourth or sixth kill (not counting the other benefits/detriments of a hunt like good or bad weather/camp etc) because overall the connection with nature and reward of harvesting of wild game meat is why I'm starting to hunt. So multiple kills of deer makes sense to me as each is rewarded by meals. I'm not starting to hunt because my guns, taking a hunting course, getting correct tag etc allow me to justify a kill. Just to kill for the sake of killing doesn't compute for me.
So lets say that someone decides they want at least one tag for each animal that you can get - like a collection. It wouldn't be my choice but I'm cool with that. Maybe describe for me (post a link to another forum?) the fascination of a second, third or fourth bear or cougar kill compared to the first? That's where you lose me... Do people have 5 bear mounts, 5 rugs? My assumptions of bear and cougar kills, and where I find the taboo, is hunting for sport, not use. I'm not saying I'm right, but other than pure blood sport, I don't understand the repeated motivation to kill a non-food animal, which I why I'd choose not to. If you happen to really like bear meat, and ate them all - then I have no argument.
Watch for it... I'll start a new thread... What do you do with your hunted cougar and bear? Maybe with some education I'll know what I'm missing and/or reinforce my beliefs.
Cheers.
"Killing and animal is killing an animal" and the hunt being a religious experience are IMHO exact opposites. Doing a job like working a bolt-gun killing cattle or helping a farmer sort out a gopher problem is killing an animal. No sport, no emotion, mild memories. (Ok, pink gopher mist would be kinda fun
)A hunt as I'd describe it is way more than just killing an animal. I haven't yet felt the adrenaline of the hunt and look forward to the deep and meaningful, memorable, religious as you've said, experience that it is. A bow hunter, a muzzle loader and city dwelling lever action shooting types like me each make decisions of how to approach the kill portion of the hunt - making each experience unique to themselves. The choice of animal is also critical to the experience. People choose different animals for different reasons.
I think that for me a fifth deer kill will be similar to a fourth or sixth kill (not counting the other benefits/detriments of a hunt like good or bad weather/camp etc) because overall the connection with nature and reward of harvesting of wild game meat is why I'm starting to hunt. So multiple kills of deer makes sense to me as each is rewarded by meals. I'm not starting to hunt because my guns, taking a hunting course, getting correct tag etc allow me to justify a kill. Just to kill for the sake of killing doesn't compute for me.
So lets say that someone decides they want at least one tag for each animal that you can get - like a collection. It wouldn't be my choice but I'm cool with that. Maybe describe for me (post a link to another forum?) the fascination of a second, third or fourth bear or cougar kill compared to the first? That's where you lose me... Do people have 5 bear mounts, 5 rugs? My assumptions of bear and cougar kills, and where I find the taboo, is hunting for sport, not use. I'm not saying I'm right, but other than pure blood sport, I don't understand the repeated motivation to kill a non-food animal, which I why I'd choose not to. If you happen to really like bear meat, and ate them all - then I have no argument.
Watch for it... I'll start a new thread... What do you do with your hunted cougar and bear? Maybe with some education I'll know what I'm missing and/or reinforce my beliefs.
Cheers.
finn
"Maybe describe for me (post a link to another forum?) the fascination of a second, third or fourth bear or cougar kill compared to the first"
When I was in my early teens, I used to think about ### the same way you think about hunting. Deeply religious experience not to be repeated more than 3 or 4 times, in a night. I mean really what's the point, actually once should be enough.
Now I'm much older I'm happy to be able to do it once.
"Maybe describe for me (post a link to another forum?) the fascination of a second, third or fourth bear or cougar kill compared to the first"
When I was in my early teens, I used to think about ### the same way you think about hunting. Deeply religious experience not to be repeated more than 3 or 4 times, in a night. I mean really what's the point, actually once should be enough.
Now I'm much older I'm happy to be able to do it once.
