"The Taliban Don't Wave" - Robert Semrau

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collector67 said:
What if the wounded Taliban had a grenade hidden on his person, and was waiting for an opportune moment to pull the pin? I have read that those guys sometimes wear "suicide vests" for that purpose....
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There are methods for dealing with an apparently wounded/dead enemy you suspect may be playing for a chance to draw you within killing range. None of those methods are "Shoot him and claim it was justified as mercy killing."
 
Morpheus32 said:
We don't carry morphine in Canada so the story is not true. Soldiers, the wounded and prisoners are not dogs. Dogs have no legal standing. It is never exceptable to kill a prisoner, it is never acceptable to kill the wounded, there is no such thing as mercy killing. This is not our first rodeo when it comes to these situations.
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Does that mean it would be carried sometimes on Operations outside Canada? We didn't carry it in U.K. either, even on Operations (N.Ireland is inside the U.K. but you aren't remote enough from medical facilities to justify morphine in the hands of commanders in the field) but I was issued it in Belize. Fortunately the one time I had to use it we had radio comms with the MO and he advised me to administer it.
 
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I distinctly recall lessons on the ethics and responsibilities of being a reg force officer taught to me years ago...we dont resort to the "lowest common denominator." We dont follow the "ends justify the means" rule. I know the situation "there" is challenging/terrifying/boring and everything else and then some (having been there briefly)...but the at the end of the day...we dont execute prisoners, We dont do "mercy killing." You will never convince me this was the right decision on his part.
 
grelmar said:
I don't care if it's written with 3rd grade grammar about digging irrigation canals to help the peaceful poppy growers of Helmand... Semrau kept his mouth shut, kept his honour, took one for the team, and got screwed by the government in return.

Ordered a couple of copies. It's not about what's in the book that matters here.
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As an officer, I could not reconcile those two statements. If I believed I was justified in breaking a rule or disobeying an order, honour would demand that I be the one to tell my superiors what I did, why I believed it was justified, and that I was prepared to accept the lawful judgement of my actions and the consequences of that judgement.
 
TheTooner said:
Does that mean it would be carried sometimes on Operations outside Canada? We didn't carry it in U.K. either, even on Operations (N.Ireland is inside the U.K. but you aren't remote enough from medical facilities to justify morphine in the hands of commanders in the field) but I was issued it in Belize. Fortunately the one time I had to use it we had radio comms with the MO and advised me to administer it.
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I carried it on one tour. On another tour, it was only carried by the medics. I was on exchange with a US unit so it was a bit different.
 
yonderin said:
He violated the Canadian Criminal Code and international conventions. And was/should have been aware of it as a trained professional. As for being "ratted out", not reporting it could have resulted in charges against others who knew of his actions.

Even if you're dying in extreme pain in an accident, police or EMT's can't perform a mercy killing.
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Regardless of personal feelings or opinions, there's just some things you can't do.
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Exactly. As a commander, especially as a commissioned officer, you have no reason to expect loyalty and/or obedience from your subordinates if you place them in that position.
 
TheTooner said:
Does that mean it would be carried sometimes on Operations outside Canada? We didn't carry it in U.K. either, even on Operations (N.Ireland is inside the U.K. but you aren't remote enough from medical facilities to justify morphine in the hands of commanders in the field) but I was issued it in Belize. Fortunately the one time I had to use it we had radio comms with the MO and advised me to administer it.
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Troops don't carry there own Morphine. The odd time, if your embedded with other nations you might and don't have a medic.
Medics carry various medications on deployment and while working in Canada.
 
Komodo said:
Ok name a war where this has not happened. If your defeated you are tried for the offences . If your the victor you are given medals. There have been countless civilians killed in previous wars some times even targeted to destroy moral and prisoners on both sides have been executed and the wounded dispatched. Not saying it is right but it happens .
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In peace, some people steal and some of them get away with it. I don't suppose you believe that because some people get away with stealing sometimes, it's o.k. for other people to steal as long as they don't get caught. Yes, of course rules have been broken and orders disobeyed in other wars. And in those other wars when people were caught, they were charged and convicted and punished because they should be.
 
Morpheus32 said:
This is like the monty python skit...if you came here for an argument, the say something. I would love to hear why not executing prisoners and the wounded will enable use to defeat ISIS, and the Taliban. I mean come on...stake out your position...
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It's just a flesh wound...........
 
CdnCombatMedic said:
Troops don't carry there own Morphine. The odd time, if your embedded with other nations you might and don't have a medic.
Medics carry various medications on deployment and while working in Canada.
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When I carried it we worked in small patrols commanded by the Platoon Commander or Platoon Sergeant. Typically I didn't have a qualified medic along.
 
TheTooner said:
As an officer, I could not reconcile those two statements. If I believed I was justified in breaking a rule or disobeying an order, honour would demand that I be the one to tell my superiors what I did, why I believed it was justified, and that I was prepared to accept the lawful judgement of my actions and the consequences of that judgement.
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Isn't that what Semrau did by submitting to the court martial?
 
Morpheus32 said:
You see your are missing the point here. Just because you are fighting the bad guys does not mean anything goes. In fact our conduct is demonstrative of us as a society. I know I know, they are really bad. I can assure you that after three tours in Afghanistan, we killed plenty of bad guys.

It is really "nice" that Semrau had loyalty to his soldiers. Maybe, if he considered that he expected people to cover up for him, we might see that his actions resulting in stress for his subordinates who knew from training and experience that what he did was wrong. The names were published and to be clear, I would have sought charges for him myself. The are things you simply do not do...executing prisoners and the wounded is one of the them. No one "ratted him out", not disclosing that they believed a service offence has taken place is an offense which the military takes very seriously.

Quoting a movie is not really relevant. You don't get to do whatever you want when you are overseas. We DEMAND soldiers to obedient to orders at all times, more so when under stress like combat. The use of deadly force which is part of what we do in the military is something we take very seriously. You don't shoot prisoners. It is totally unacceptable and there is no justification. Zero, nada.
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Semrau offered no excuses for his actions. He made a decision, it bit him on the ass and he paid the price. Probably did him a favour in the long run. Had he been exonerated, I'm sure that he would have been shunned, as evidenced by the comments made here.

He mentions in the book that those who came forward in his defence were putting their careers on the line. He is better off gone.
 
Morpheus32 said:
So what are you saying...it happens so it is what? OK?

It is not right and if we accept the behaviour then it will happen more often. We are Canadians, we don't execute prisoners, we don't kill the wounded. It is a rather simple principle and is a requirement we expect all soldiers to adhere to. As a professional soldier if you can't understand that and adhere to it, you leave the profession of arms. It is simple as that. I would court martial anyone who killed a prisoner or shot enemy wounded. It is never acceptable...
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Hypothetically speaking, after you morally took him prisoner, Would It be moral to then turn him over to one of the local forces if you knew they were going to shoot him? shades of gray much
 
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